Hey Dale, You've often described probing a set of new hammers with a single needle to judge work-ability... would you consider posting a photo to demonstrate the length of needle and where you typically insert it, angle, etc? Others do this as well, and I think it's a useful test. Thanks for sharing! Mark Cramer, RPT Brandon University On 20/02/2011 3:33 PM, Dale Erwin wrote: > Hi Jeannie > Good question. Easier to demonstrate than write about to be sure. > Most of my experience comes from 2 1/2 decades of trying to get at > the heart of understanding hammers by pushing on that and the voicing > envelope. It pushed me, into rebuilding. I hate the answer, you > know,... its by experience, and, well that doesn't help anybody > much,... does it? But,.... The truth is we learn by doing. By being > inquisitive. That is where it began for me. > > During and after my time spent teaching" Everyday voicing" with Bob > Davis I had been looking for a hammer that could produce a sound I > liked with out hours of acupuncture . Actually it wasn't that needling > was a bad thing in ityself, but it did not give me the sustain and the > dark side of tone easily. And the noise always came back. Its true, > many hammers have gotten better overall (some not) and as*Ed S.* says, > "the world is changing", so cast nothing written here by me in stone. > Perhaps a guide post only > > I have had extensive on experience with both the Ronsen hammer and > the Isaac hammer. Having sold both, first, the Isaac in the early > 1990s, and since have collaborated, taught and done R&D with Ray at > Ronsen for about 12 years. For me these 2 hammers have been my > learning ground and my weapon of choice all though I haven't used the > Isaacs in 15 years. Sorry...all that to say I have literally handled > hundred of set of hammers, probing them, using them, voicing and > comparing the results. After while I would feel a certain density that > I learned was workable, or not. > The hammer that works the best in my book have a feel that I call > uniform density or stiffness. By that I mean, when I test them by > inserting a needle in the shoulders, crown or through the cut side, > the stiffness, is fairly even. It takes a resistive force but the > needle goes in all the way to the molding or thru the side and isn't > blocked by overly dense felt near the top of the molding. > > Nice resistance going in and a needle that doesn't pop back out when > with drawing it. This is a workable hammer. The other tool I use is > my Flex-o-meter which actually a hand held press which allows your > hand to squeeze the hammer, showing its motion and also giving > feedback in a very tactile way as to its strength & compressibility. > Many have heard about this device before and have seen it in class > with Ray. > I wish I could shout this. Here goes....In most cases...*.IT > DOESN'T' TAKE A HARD HAMMER/ FELT TO PRODUCE TONE.* I feel better now. > > But the best test for me is the needle test. Beyond that,*hammer > sampling* is the*best wisdom*, and David Love has really been a > proponent of this. It makes perfect sense considering the varying > stiffness of s.board systems and differing stiffness of many brands of > hammers. For example. What type of hammer would best serve in an old > vintage board with the little crown and minimum down bearing? The > petrified felt brand or the cotton ball brand? Ok, neither but on a > stiffness scale of 1 to 10. I'll take a 6 5 or 6 ish not a 8 or 9ish. > Make sense? > Try sample hammers in a piano before committing to them. I've made > this mistake loads of times. > The entire concept is summed up this way. > > The inherent stiffness of a soundboard system needs to be matched by > a hammer set thats stiffness gradient ellicits the best overall sound > (however you determine that) with out massive amounts of voicing. > And.... No stiffness gradient present in any set of hammers, will > precisely match each note on any piano but voicing will be minimal > when the set of hammers more closely matches the soundboard systems > stiffness. If we want to hit the bulls eye, aim at the bulls eye not > the target. > Sorry for the long answer. I find it hard to write this stuff clearly > Hope it helps. > > > > *Dale S. Erwin > www.Erwinspiano.com > Custom restoration > Ronsen Piano hammers > Join the Weickert felt Revolution > 209-577-8397 > 209-985-0990 > * > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeannie Grassi <jcgrassi at earthlink.net> > To: caut at ptg.org > Sent: Sun, Feb 20, 2011 10:37 am > Subject: Re: [CAUT] Lacquered hammers > > Dale, > Can you describe exactly (or close_) as to what you want to feel with > that probe? What feedback are you looking for from that? I think > this would be a most helpful bit of information for me to think about. > I know how I want it to sound after I'm done needling, but many times > when I'm done I wish I had never started, but do not yet have a way to > evaluate that. > > jeannie grassi > Bainbridge Island, WA > > P.S. I'm loving this conversation even though I'm a few days behind in > my reading. > > On Feb 17, 2011, at 5:30 PM, Dale Erwin wrote: > >> Double dog dittos Doug. Well said. I've said similar things but >> nobody listens to me. :) >> I here so many guys curse lacquer and nary a dismal word about a >> mind numbing 200 needle strokes a hammer or another step towards >> carpal tunnel syndrome. >> The intelligent judicious use of thin solutions is acceptable and >> workable. It is the over use and unintelligent applications od >> solutions into hammers which IMO should possibly be declared >> defective from the git go that mystifies me. I think we need some >> classes on the subject and stop ignoring it like its the stepchild of >> voicing. >> It is a tool and the misuse of tools often leads to failure or injury. >> FWIW. I probe each set of hammers with a no 6 needle to check for >> an adequate density whether it be Hot pressed, or luke warm pressed, >> before I ever commit to them. >> Sent many sets of each type back if they failed the test. Its too >> much work and its too important to be successful and foolish to risk >> failure with the clients money >> >> >> >> *Dale S. Erwin >> www.Erwinspiano.com <http://www.Erwinspiano.com> >> >> * >> >> >> Doug wood >> To: College and University Technicians <caut at ptg.org >> <mailto:caut at ptg.org>> >> >> *_/ >> /_* >> *_/OK, while I'm on a roll here. I guess I really don't see that the >> variance in need for lacquer is really all that different from the >> variance in need for deep shoulder needling on the hard-pressed >> hammers. I've heard reports from 20 to 200 blows in each shoulder, >> depending on source and hammer set. ?? I realize that I'm speaking >> from mostly ignorance here, as most of my work involves lacquered >> hammers. But is it really so different that one set of hammers will >> be fine with 2 or 3 visits with the lacquer, and another require 7 or 8? >> /_* >> Doug >> >> ********************************* >> Doug Wood >> Piano Technician >> School of Music >> University of Washington >> dew2 at uw.edu <mailto:dew2 at uw.edu> >> >> doug at dougwoodpiano.com <mailto:doug at dougwoodpiano.com> >> (206) 935-5797 >> ********************************* >> > > = -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://ptg.org/pipermail/caut.php/attachments/20110220/bc4df4b0/attachment.htm>
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