Bob O'Ling Hammerz

[Larry Fisher]

first a bit of humor.....

>From: Benjamin Treuhaft <blt@igc.apc.org>


>Hey, Larry Fischer  ( hey, you mispelt muh name BOZO)
>     What is a Beau Dahnker and why does it work best underwater?
>Benjamin Treuhaft
>Underwater Piano Shop
>Berkeley, Calif.

It do a mighty fine job o'playin Handle's (undie) Wahta Moozic.


>   I'am  glad you asked. I did not want ask in front of everyone.
>Clark Hale

Would you care to ask that behind everyone??  or would that be the butt of
...... never mind.

I do this internet stuff in the buff sometimes. ...... butt I wouldn't want
y'all to know that.  People might think I'm wierd or somethin.

***********************************************
and now, some kinda serious stuff.....

RE: Bob O'Ling Hammerz (an Irish Chinaman with German ancestry)
>
>We had the same problem on a Samick built grand (5'9") with a PianoDisc
>installation. Notes dropped out on playback at soft playback levels.
>
>In our case the problem was due to the fact that the PianoDisc system does
>not allow for the individual note to note control for each key. As the
>playback volume is turned down there will be certain notes that won't play.
>
>I called PianoDisc to see if there was not something I was missing and was
>told that I wasn't.

If this were the case Glenn, you were dealing with a very old model of PDS.
The model 128 with version G software is fully adjustable (128 midi levels)
with each individual note.  This is accesable in software from the front of
the control box, in the service mode, without the use of any outside
attachments, just a disk in the disk drive,..... any PDS format disk.  It's
called minimum note velocity.

There are a number of adjustments in the present PDS system to compensate
for dropped notes.  Also, the PDS is a great way to find tight bushings or
excessive friction in a particular note not usually found through playing
manually.  Pianomation has a similar feature that will provide the same
hints of action irregularities.  Not seeing many Disklavier's in my daily
routines, I can't vouch for them, however, I might add that the Disklavier
is a very well engineered piece of machinery.

>I believe on the Yamaha Disklavier there is a configuration procedure that
>adjusts the playback of each note to take into account the differences on
>each note.
>
>The QRS system has a manual procedure for adjusting each note for the
>minimum velocity needed for each note.

[an extra piece of equipment is needed to perform this proceedure]

>
>
Glenn Grafton
>Grafton Piano & Organ Co.
>
>
*************************************************************************
>
>Congratulations on finding a fix for this piano.  I'll file this away and
>check it out on my next one.  Even if it's not a Samick-specific problem,
>the experience could be helpful.  The true test will be if the results
>can be duplicated.
[please read this post in it's entirety to get more info on this]


We need to get some installer's forum going.  It would only improve the
think tank on these products.


>It seems that mechanical playing poses new regulation problems that we
>will need to get used to in all makes.  I have done several Samick
>installations as well (mostly Kohler and Campbell - one twice).  I would
>like to see the areas of regulation that are most critical to mechanical
>installations identified and explained in an ordered fashon.
>
>Mark Story, RPT

Great idea Mark.  I agree about the regulation points of importance on
electro-mechanical pianos.  I have found that the touch weight of 52 grams
is fairly condusive to making the playback system far more responsive than
the helter skelter high as heck touch weight of fresh out of the box
actions.  The last two Baldwin L's I did recently spoiled me.  The out of
the box regulation was really good, the responsiveness of the action with
the PDS was excellant, and I was able to get the unit to play at a whisper
with just a few passes through Minimum Velocity Settings.  I have yet to do
a Steinway with the model 128+ but that's coming up later next week.  I get
spoiled doing these upper end installations and then a Samick comes along
and makes me work for every gram of response.

RE: Glenn's post about not being able to adjust individual notes.....
Mark replied.....

>I don't think this is the whole story.  I believe the PDS does give
>control over the expression table, both automatic and manual.  However,
>the TFT option (record) must be installed to supply the necessary
>feedback for this to work.  This is a big "however" too, since most
>installations that I have done were sans TFT.  With the Disklavier, it's
>not an option (nor is the additional cost), so it's not an issue.  I'm
>not sure about QRS.

>Mark Story, RPT
>
>mstory@ewu.edu

You're referring to the record strip doing the reading of the keys for
automatic setting of minimum velocities.  I've been told, and have found for
myself, that this is a lame way of setting minimum velocities.  The best way
is to  set them manually and adjusting the minimum note duration to
accomodate your settings.

If you find your minimum velocities are at 01 and you still have too much
volume across the board, then lower your voltage at the power supply but
don't go lower than 32.5 VDC (I think).  Any lower than that and playback
will produce occasional loud bursts of notes at random.

I strongly urge everyone on the list to attend the electro-mechanical
classes being offered at the various guild seminars,  by Yamaha, PianoDisc
and anybody doing Pianomation.  Knowledge is a powerful tool.


*******************************************************
time for a bit of humor ....

>From: Jim Kinnear <jkinnear@blue.georgian.net>

>Hmmmmmmmmm
>maybe a Beau dahnker keeps you from Dhrifting..... groan

snicker, hee hee, ha ha, ho ho, smirk, yuk yuk, hardy har har.

I'm laughing guys.  I like creativity like this.  Keep it up.  Beau was a
nice guy and hard worker but he got in a bit over his head eh???   Dah, like
dat's  why he went under,  huh....!?@*!!

***************************************************************
back to work ....


>>From my conversation with the technical people at Piano Disc, as well as
>another Piano Disc installer I was told that the individual note to note
>velocity is not adjustable. If someone knows otherwise I would be delighted
>to find out how it is.
>
>Glenn Grafton
>Grafton Piano & Organ Co.
>
>
>
I hope I've given you some insight into this Glenn.  Email me directly for
specifics if you need them.  I'd like to see you reach a good level of
understanding of the various systems offered by PDS over the years.


>From: stanwood@tiac.net (stanwood)

>Subject: Re: Bob O'Ling Hammerz

>
>I don't believe I've heard key dip mentioned in any of these conversations.
>My first reaction to bobbling hammers is insufficient dip.  For a player
>mechanism, the dip would be a function of how far up the player pushes on
>the back of the key. First I would look for lost motion between the back of
>the key and whatever pushes up on it from the player mechanism.   If there
>were no lost motion then I would ask the manufacturer how much stroke the
>mechanism makes and if there is any adjustment of this.  If not then I would
>surmise that the only way to prevent bobbling is to settle for a higher
>hammer line.
>
>David C. Stanwood
>
>
Totally excellant Dave Dude!!  I too tried to experiment with removing
punchings under the front of the keys, and I tried raising the hammer line
on a few of the worst offenders.  All this before I coved the hammer heads.

I'm blushing with embarrassment however.  The next morning, with a fresh
cup, a clear head, clean clothes, and freshly tied shoes, I double checked
things from the start.  The first thing I checked was the solenoid height
and found that the plungers weren't pushing the keys into full dip in that
section.  DUH!  After adjusting that rail, Bob O'Ling took a hike.  This
makes David the Piano Dude of the week.  (compliment intended)  I had a
great conversation with Dean at Samick about backchecks and hammer tail
shaping on Samicks however, plus a great bunch of warm responses from a
great bunch of cyber techs here on this list.

Now if we could just get the people making all the fuss with Leon and Fern,
to learn to discuss things without slinging fierce weapons at each other!!

******************************************************
Avery asks Mark .......

>   My other question is: to what uses do the classes put the PDS system?
>Could you give us an idea? Maybe it's something our school might be
>interested in.
>   Thanks.
>
>_____________________________________
>Avery Todd, RPT
>Moore's School of Music
>University of Houston
>Houston, TX 77204-4893
>713-743-3226
>atodd@uh.edu
>_____________________________________
>
Me too, Me two, Me to, Meetu, Meatauex.   eh??

I'd like to express my gratitude towards everyone on the list.  I enjoy
hammering out solutions without slinging mud with intelligent concerned
individuals.  Leaving our emotions and personal feelings towards a
particular product in the car while we go do calls in the home is sometimes
a real challenge but can be the difference between a professional and a
............. fee collector.  Finding solutions for the problems with the
products that are being sold.  That's our focus.  Discussions like this
improve our vision, and the future of a market that is sagging and needs
real devoted help.  I'm convinced that the best possible service, in all
it's shining high polished glory, will satisfy the masses and generate more
sales, and that means more work, and that means more MONEY!!!  (heavy sigh,
I'm getting hyper here)

I'm so happy with myself now I think I'll go find some "recipe" to tickle my
inards with.

Lar

                           Larry Fisher RPT, Metro Portland, Oregon's
                  Factory Preferred Installer for MSR/PianoDisc Products
                       phone 360-256-2999 or email larryf@pacifier.com
                            http://pacifier.com/~larryf/homepage.html
                         Beau Dahnker pianos work best under water