Aural Pure 5ths Equal Temperament

[Richard Moody]

Oh boy, how to talk about aural tuning, but trading experiences seems
valuable.
	One time when subing for the regular tuner he warned me that the
performer was critical of the upper octaves, that he had checked the
piano and it should only need a touch up, but don't go over board,
tune like I usually do, that sooner or later it comes down to the
tuner's judgment, not the player's. Or words to that effect.
	As soon as I got there I checked the octaves,, good,, double
octaves,, OK,, triple octaves,,wow sounds good,, quadruple octaves,,
nothing blatent.  In walks the pianist, "The upper octaves sounded
flat in practice."  "I just checked them and nothing horrendous, but
I would like to check them against single strings.  Say how did you
hear them?" He proceded to play them not together but melodically,
(apregio).  "See they sound flat"
	Trying not to seem like I was squirming between a rock and a hard
place, I blurted out, "Oh I havn't gotten to those checks yet, let me
get set up and we will see what we can do." "OK, I'll leave you to
your work," he said, and walked out.
	I started with a double octave and raised the left string two beats
just to be blatent and then checked it against the single string in
the temp.  No beats....  OOOps. Hmm how far can I go and what about
the octave+5ths? It turned out I could boost those octaves by one to
two beats (the left string against the middle string) and still have
beatless double and triple intervals.  Well maybe one beat in three
seconds sharp, but I can't count that slow, and the double
octaves+3rd (is that a seventeenth?) didn't speed up that much.  So I
jacked up the treble, but the pianist never came back to check, and I
never found out if he noticed the difference.  I didn't hear from the
tuner that I really stretched his octaves too much, and he had me sub
on other occasions. Oh well another day, another tuning.  BTW this
was on an American D at least once restrung.

	You wrote "There is a limit on how fast
> a fourth should be allowed to beat"

	Of course within the octave the fourth will beat according to how
the fifth is set. I have recently noticed an interesting relation of
these intervals according to beat rate tables.
Using the first edition Reblitz illus. 4-11, F3 - F4.  The fourth
F3-Bb is .790 bps.  the Bb-F4 is .790, exactly the same rate.
However the F3-C4 fifth is .590 while the fourth C4-F4 is 1.180 or
exactly TWICE the rate.  Having never known this it doesn't affect
the way I tune, but perhaps it explains why I never listened much to
fourths.  They (for me) result after the fifths and thirds are set.
Besides I don't hear a distinct beat, rather a change of tonality
when the intervals of fifths and fourths are tuned.

Richard Moody

ps.  Notes 85, 86 87  no problem.  Notes 1-25, that's my grey hair
area.


----------
> From: Brent.Fischer@asu.edu
> To: pianotech@byu.edu
> Subject: Re: Aural Pure 5ths Equal Temperament
> Date: Friday, May 30, 1997 2:02 PM
>
>
> Dear Jim,
>
snip
>Of course I am one of those who has been advocating
> this stretch to the limit tuning style since a few years ago and
> truly the acknowledgement goes to Franz Mohr and the techs at
Steinway
> Hall for coaching me on this at that time. There is a limit on how
fast
> a fourth should be allowed to beat and on concert grands I have
generally
> found it to all work out within reason, however the tuning I just
completed
> this morning re-confirmed a critical area on the Steinway "D"
exists
> between notes #67 and #76.  In my opinion, the speed of the 17ths
thru this
> range will make or break the difference between an exciting and
brilliant
> top end or a sound that becomes edgy and brittle. Just being a hair
too
> fast is worse to me than slightly slower than ideal.
snip

> School of Music, Arizona State University
> Tempe, Arizona 85287-0405
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> http://www.asu.edu/cfa/music/
>
>