piano scams

[Sy Zabrocki]

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From: 	Sy Zabrocki[SMTP:only4zab@imt.net]
Sent: 	Saturday, November 15, 1997 12:08 AM
To: 	'pianotech@ptg.org'
Subject: 	RE: piano scams

>From Sy Zabrocki

Mr. Martin:

You state in your post that "You NEVER discounted two cents on any piece of merchandise".

Would you purchase a new automobile for $25,000 knowing that the dealer made a profit of $12,500 off you? Would you purchase a new computer for $2500 knowing the dealer made a profit of $1250. Well I wouldn't and neither will the buying public today. 

So why does the piano industry still use the present pricing structure?  Why is the Suggested Retail Price on a grand $20,000 while the dealer cost is $10,000? The buying public is just a little to smart these days. You can't consistently manipulate intelligent people.

I recently bought a new GMC service vehicle. For weeks I studied all options and even used the Web where I even could find the dealer invoice prices. When I went to make the deal I know I had to give the dealer a profit but not what he was initially asking. I made a deal when "I felt comfortaable."

Now I ask you all. WHEN DOES A FIRST TIME PIANO SHOPPER FEEL COMFORTABLE? I am a dealer also and I discount just like all the rest. If I didn't I wouldn't sell anything. I am totally embarrassed by having to explain these large discounts but I have to do so or my pianos are perceived to be cheaper than the rest. I also discount right up front. 

Here's what can happen. I have a nice console for $5500. Some guy haggles with me for a week I finally sell for $4300 with still a nice profit. Next day grandma comes in and wants a console for her granddaugher for graduation. Grandma makes a selection and whips out her checkbook. Grandma is meek, timid and trusting. So I take her check, then giggle and do a jig when she leaves. Never would I be part of this and that's why I'm still here while a dozen former dealers are gone. That's why my discount is up front and there for all. Maybe that's why I never became a big dealer but I sleep at night. 

First time buyers can become totally bewildered. One salesman will shovel baloney to them while another shovels just the opposite. Then add the fictitious pricing and you have one confused potential buyer (who might not then buy at all). Instead of the university sales the industry would be better off just cleaning up it's act. A realistic retail price would be a step in the right direction. 

This is not meant to offend Mr. Martin. I suspect his business was back in the "olden days" as he states he was Conn organ dealer.  

Sy Zabrocki--RPT
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From: 	ralph m martin[SMTP:rmartin30@juno.com]
Sent: 	Friday, November 14, 1997 10:01 AM
To: 	pianotech@ptg.org
Subject: 	piano scams

Hi all

As some of you know, I was a pretty good-sized piano and organ dealer for
years. ....
if you condider 26 stores "good-sized". I, in no way, condone misleading
ads OR sales. As a matter of fact I was apposed to a sale of ANY kind.
Price alone is always a poor closing argument. A great number of keyboard
salepeople AND dealers are really not sales people in the strict sense of
the word and, resultantly, rely almost wholly on reducing the price in
order to make a sale.

There are a number of situations that can cause an otherwisw honest
dealer to involve himself in these sordid practices. These, in my mind,
are no excuse but they should be mentioned.For instance, I have heard
dealers told, in no uncertain terms, by manufacturer's reps that the
manufacturer needs more volume from the area and that, if the dealer
cannot supply it or expand his operation, he would have to share his line
with another dealer. 

The poor guy's whole life and investment is poured into this place and he
panics and 
tries all kinds of schemes to move merchandise quickly so that he may
protect his investment. Wrong!....but panic breeds all kinds of wrong
moves.

Sometimes the poor guy can't even may the coming month's overhead and he
is threatened with going out of business....and he panics and attempts to
save his business and family by whatever means he can think of.

I am not defending poor and/or shady business practice. I'm merely
pointing out how these things sometimes come about. It's sad, really. 

Sometimes the guy is just plain crooked...but not always!

Manufacturers have much the same problems...only in a bigger way. They
want to keep all their help and their help is creating X many units per
year. They've GOTTA DUMP THEM. They can't eat them.

I had a long talk with a dealer about ten years ago who was complaining
bitterly that 
"....all customers walking through my door today are looking for
impossible discounts.". I asked him to show me all the previous year's
ads. No surprise!!...they were all discount ads. He, blindly, was
spending his money advertising for the  type of customer he didn't want!

At the risk of being redundant, I do not support any kind of shady or
misleading advertisement or business practices. Rather, I'm just trying
to paint a picture of what,
sometimes,  precipitates this kind of action. It's very easy to take
shots at these guys, but until you have a couple of million bucks
invested in a business of this size, you'll never know how you'd behave
under some of these circumstances. 

I also ran, years ago, the highest yeild per square foot of any Conn
organ dealer in the world. I say this not to "blow my own horn" but,
rather to relate how it was done. I NEVER discounted two cents on ANY
piece of merchandise. This is especially interesting when you understand
that I was literally surrounded by dealers who were advertising ...." 40%
off all merchandise in our store". I also never ran an ad that named a
price. I never sold an organ in my life.....I sold MUSIC...and the
creation of it.

I know...I'm ramlin' along here and nobody cares about the ramblin' of an
old dude like me....they'll just continue to discount and trade
themselves out of business.

regards

Ralph Martin