Tuning Invention Idea

[KCW]

Hi Phil, Tom and list,

On Sat, 11 Oct 1997, Tom Cole wrote:

> called tuning pins which have to be "settled" in the pinblock if a
> stable tuning is to be achieved. Were it not for the challenge of
> micro-adjusting these gross contrivances, we would have an easier job,
> that's for sure.

because it's a micro-adjustment, I can see a huge advantage of a
computerized device.  A computer should be able to calculate how far the
pin WILL settle if sufficient data were given.

	I have thought about an automatic tuning device a while back.
First of all, it probably need a huge battery unless battery technology is
greatly improved (you can always carry an extension cord with you).
Second, it's probably not economical to use with a SAT, because you would
need another microchip to do the calculations (plus SAT and other
professional elect. tuning devices are well over-priced. Compare the
prices of those rectangular object to a sophisticated digital cell phone!)
I would use it with a high speed laptop.
	99 out of 100 tuners would ask, "what about tuning stability?
This is impossible!"  Well, the machine will tune the note slightly higher
according to the calculations (from real data) and pull the pitch back
just enough to stabilize the tension throughout the string (btw, this is
called feed forwarding system in engineering term.  Your car has many of 
those systems, for example).  98 out of those 99 tuners would then ask,
"what real data are you talking about?  Easy, the deice will drop the
pitch before raising it until the pitch drops significantly to make sure a
rusty joint breaks.  And during that process, it can estimate the torque
of the pin hole, tension of the string (assuming string size and mass
density are given), kinetic and static friction of the pin hole, and
possibly the kinetic and static friction of the bearings (probably not a
easy task).  Say the calculated value was off, the computer will "learn"
the mistake as a reference for other pins in the same piano and retune the
note(the note should be set in 2, 3 times, or in couple of seconds).
Torque measuring devices have become much more sophisticate
nowaday, check out those digital torque wrench by Snap-On (tm) and better 
yet, some other industrial-level torque devices.  
Ok, and how is this device held in place?  It would be by the same piece
of iron that holds all the strings' tension in a piano, hopefully you know
what I'm talking about :)
	I believe a normal tuning should be done in about 20 to 30
minutes.  Much longer for a very fine tuning.  The time can be shortened
greatly if a more expensive model which can tune more than one string at a
time is used.

> 
> If you wanted to have a piano that could tune itself, you would need to
> re-engineer the tuning system as suggested above. As for a tuning
> hammer/SAT rig to use on existing pianos, though, this is another
> matter. Anything's possible, of course, but even in the Yamaha factory,
> with all their incredible machinery, I believe they still use people to
> tune the new pianos.

Once an antomatic tuning device becomes real, I don't see a problem to
make a piano self-tunable. Set it up and have the piano player play the
notes for you.  And when you come back from a coffee break, the piano
would be in tune!  If it sounds so simple, then how come it has never been
done?  That's because piano tuning is not a million dollar bussines
(simply not economicaly feasible to design it).  But I believe the dream
(good or bad dream, depends how you think of it) should come true as
technology becomes cheaper.

> 
> Thanks to tradition, people will continue to beat a path to our doors.
> But don't let that stop you from dreaming of a better "mouse trap".

Gosh, I wonder if tuning would become a forgotten art if self-tuning
devices becomes reality.  We wouldn't have tuners/tooners anymore.  "Wait,
what's a tooning hammer again?"
	I have a feeling that most  (or almost every?  Except music
school technicians and *hearing* impaired piano tuners :) ) tuners out
there is against this idea. This can make some tuners go out of business.
And oh, I'm an aural tuner and I do not know how to use ETD such as SAT.
They're too expensive (not economicaly feasible for the time it saves,
plus my eyes won't be spinning.  My watch keeps spinning clockwise,
is the A too sharp or is my eyes spinning counterclockwise?)!

Comments welcome

Kuang



> 
> Tom
> 
> Phil Ryan wrote:
> > 
> >    Does anyone have any comments or reactions to the idea of building a
> > battery operated or electrical  tuning hammer which could be interfaced
> > with a SAT or other computerized piano tuning program to slowly  tighten
> > or loosen the tuning pin of the note you are playing until the red
> > lights are stopped?  Would such an invention be possible, feasible or
> > desirable?  Or is there such an mechanism out there?  I'd love to hear
> > your comments.
> > 
> > Phil R.
> > 
> > .-
> 
> -- 
> Thomas A. Cole RPT
> Santa Cruz, CA
>