Brass butt problem

[Robert B Edwardsen]

Greg:

Look at Schaff Catalog, pg. 82 , item No. 509 or American Catalog, pg. 78, No. 24432 and you
will see the type of hammer butt I am referring to.  As far as my experience goes this is the
most common type of brass rail butt.  Check out Bill Maxim's response to Jim Dally's original
post and you'll get a very good explanation of what I was trying to describe.

Rob Edwardsen, RPT

Gregory Torres wrote:

> Rob,
>
> I don't think I have ever seen this type of hammer butt assembly. All the ones I have seen
> like this have a butt plate screwed to the butt and a small slot where the center pin is
> fastened by the butt plate. I don't think I have ever seen one with centerpin pivoting in
> felt unless you mean the bushing felt in the flange??
>
> Curious,
> Greg Torres
>
> Robert B Edwardsen wrote:
>
> > Hi Greg:
> >
> > What I meant was that sometimes in a typical butt plate (with a threaded hole) the plate
> > is a little out of alignment which allow the plate to be tightned down but the butt still
> > wobbles because because the center pin is not in the groove.
> >
> > As far as the glue goes, sometimes there is a tiny split in the wood below the felt lined
> > hole the centerpin pivots in which allows a little wobble in the hammer butt assembly.
> >
> > Rob
> >
> > Gregory Torres wrote:
> >
> > > Rob,
> > >
> > > So, you are saying then that you have the type of hammer butt where the brass plate is
> > > attached directly to the butt with a wood screw? If so, I have found that cleaning and
> > > filing the surface of the hammer butt where the butt plate attaches helps sometimes.
> > > The butt and butt plate have to mate precisely. But if the screw hole is stripped no
> > > amount of tightening will do it. And if that part is ok but the flange bushing is worn
> > > slightly you will either have to re-pin or replace the flange. (I guess that part is
> > > obvious)  ;-)
> > >
> > > But in reading your post further it sounds as if you may have an unusual type of
> > > flange/butt assembly in which case maybe replacing the felt and putting CA or epoxy in
> > > the screw hole???
> > >
> > > Hope this helps..
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Greg Torres
> > >
> > > Robert B Edwardsen wrote:
> > >
> > > > If the brass is not cracked my experience has been that sometimes the pin is not
> > > > quite lined up and that makes the butt really loose, other times I have found small
> > > > cracks/splits in the wood of the butt below the felt lined pin hole allow the butt
> > > > to have a little wobble.
> > > >
> > > > I would imagine brass is pretty easy to mold since it has a pretty low melting
> > > > point compared to Stainless Steel.
> > > >
> > > > Rob Edwardsen, RPT
> > > >
> > > > Gregory Torres wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > James,
> > > > >
> > > > > Is it the butt plates that are breaking or the rail itself? If it is chronic
> > > > > you may just have a case where the brass  has  "crystallized". I don't know if
> > > > > this is a legitimate technical term for it but I don't know any other way to
> > > > > explain it except that the brass has changed it's molecular structure and has
> > > > > weakened. Or somewhere another tech has over-tightened the screws weakening the
> > > > > brass. If it is the rail you may have to have the brass rail duplicated. I
> > > > > don't know who does this anymore-anyone else???
> > > > >
> > > > > You might also be able to get by with the brass rail flange/plate repair clips
> > > > > sold by Apsco or Schaff. They have proven indispensable for me many times. I
> > > > > keep a couple dozen of the different types in my parts bin at all times. Good
> > > > > Luck.
> > > > >
> > > > > BTW, maybe someone can explain why stainless steel has not been used in this
> > > > > type of application (I haven't seen it used anyways) besides being more costly
> > > > > than brass, perhaps??? Del?? any others??
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > > Greg Torres
> > > > >
> > > > > James Dally wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I installed new butts and hammers on a Kroehler upright.  I have checked
> > > > > > the brass rail and the brass butts where the screw goes in.  This is the
> > > > > > type where the screw goes through the rail and then the brass butt receives
> > > > > > the threaded screw.  The butts have been replaced where hammers have
> > > > > > loosened but the problem continues.  When it seems I have solved the
> > > > > > problem, another hammer loosens.  As near as I can tell the rail is not
> > > > > > cracked.  If anyone has had experience with this problem I will certainly
> > > > > > appreciate advice.  Jim Dally