HT Experience=cents from ET

[Richard Moody]

----- Original Message -----
From: <JStan40@AOL.COM>
To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 6:58 PM
Subject: HT Experience


>  Actually, ET has been so prevalent during this century, that it makes
sense
> to describe other temperaments in terms of "cents-off" from ET.....it's
> easily understood what that means.

There is a technical reason for giving "cents from ET".   It happens that
when every semitone is 100 cents from each other it is easier and more
cogent
to show variations from equality.    The reason for
using cents to begin with is that cents is a powerful mathmatical tool for
figuring actual frequencies, beat rates, tensions, computer generated tones,
digital measuring devices etc etc. Cents are a clever form of logarithms
that allow intervals to be presented in additive quantities rather than in
ratios which must be multiplied or divided, and gets into complicated messes
of "powers of".  Cents also show the divisions
of the octave in the same units as the width of the intervals, as the
division of the semitones and on down to the smallest microtone.
    Some may ask, "why not show the deviations from Just?"   OK, what is
Just? For the diatonic scale the Just ratios and consequently their
conversions
into cents are pretty straight forward.  But when you have to figure what
the accidentals are,  you end up with more than 13 notes. Gb and F# for
example are two different notes in Just Intonation. However  cents
differences from Just are often given, as in the pure 3rd being 13 cents
flat from ET, or the ET 5th being 2 cents flat from the Just jor pure 5th.
    If the whole world wakes up tomorrow and demands to no longer
hear music in ET, ET in the form of cents would still be the tool to give
these these "new" (OK "other") tonalities they want to hear.   Since all
music now is played on instruments designed to or around ET, naturally this
new tonality would have to be figured in "cents off" ET. This ET even though
no longer a temperament would still be around as a tool since ET as the
twelth root of 2,   --2^(1/12)--  is the basis for cents.  Cents is the base
two log of a ratio (interval) times 1200.   This I hope to explain in an
article "Wrapping up Cents" which I hope leads to an article exploring  the
inharmonicity formulas but I need the help of a math person to do it.
Anone?   We now have a music professor, I wonder if there is a math
professor lurking---ric



> but most of us don't really give a flying _____ about ET, we just
> play in tune.  With a piano we adjust.  If piano is only ONE of the
>ensemble members, well, then.......the piano might sound a bit out of tune
from
>time to time by comparison.

> ET is basically a compromise born of the desire of keyboard players and
> composers to play in more than just a very few keys........but the
character
> of the intonation IN those few keys (and others) was given up in the
process.
>  Do we miss it?  Probably not, since many of us have never heard anything
> else, at least that we were aware of.  I still don't think it is accurate
>to say that no one hears the difference.  I do, and I appreciate that
>difference.





>
> In any case, I think that certain devotees of HTs overstate the
> case--hyperbole is not unusual among missionaries of ANY type--in saying
that
> HTs will become the norm.  I believe that HTs will become more an accepted
> part of the expressive arsenal for keyboard instruments.  The whole
situation
> doesn't HAVE to go any further than that, after all.  Just look at that
set
> of graphs that Ron Koval posted last week.........how far from ET are ANY
of
> the WTs, at least?  Yes, there will be noticeable changes, I believe, but
> will they be such that a violinist, flutist, oboist, etc., couldn't find
ways
> to be in tune?  Come on, those guys are EXPERTS at figuring out how to be
in
> tune.....been doing it every day of their professional lives!!!  (Susan?
> Agreed?)
>
> One of the things that has made a difference in this whole discussion is
the
> existance of easily used ETDs.......whether one chooses to use them or not
is
> not really the issue here.....it is true that they have made the accurate
> rendering of alternate temperaments more likely, after a few generations
of
> ET-only aural tuners.  Good or bad?  Neither, probably.  How about
> "different"?  And not so VERY different, at that........but enough to be
> heard, at least in my limited experience.
>
> Economic incentive?  For whom?  Tuners?  (Answer, ETD.)  Players?  Some
will
> want to experiment....and I'd go with those betting that there will be
more
> of them, not fewer.  Manufacturers?  No, not unless there is clearly a
move
> in that direction by lots of musicians.  Why spend money if you don't have
> to?  (Del rightly reminds us of that reality on a regular basis.)  But
that's
> not an artistic decision, is it?  Listeners?  No, at least not the general
> listening population.  They are only interested in the music "sounding
good,"
> whatever that may mean to them.  For some it means never  playing anything
> beyond Brahms!  So that's taste, which is pretty difficult to chart for
any
> economic trends!  But there will be a few who will be intrigued by the
> possibility of different sounds in keyboard music.  Will this be large
enough
> for the recording industry to go into it?  Probably not.  Ed Foote may be
> quite alone in providing for this area.  But.........
>
> Mind you, I think you might very well be correct, in that the HT thing may
> not go any further than it seems to be headed at the moment.  But I don't
> think that you can identify simple reasons for that, if it happens that
way.
> And I DO think that it is likely that more and more tuners will experiment
> with temperaments, and more will be willing to tune in that manner.  I
think
> that techs who DO offer choices are much appreciated by their own
clienteles,
> and isn't that immediately important to them?  Many take great pains to
> discuss this issue thoroughly with their customers before doing ANY
alternate
> tuning style, and in doing so are opening up whole other musical vistas
for
> people who might otherwise never know that alternatives existed.
>
> So.................if you want the intellectual waters muddied, you've
come
> to the right place.  I'm your man, alway willing and able to obfuscate,
> pretty much on the spot!  Of course, I DO have this interest in the
> subject......
>
> Whaddaya think?  Bounced that ball right back out into the middle of the
> court!
>
> Stan Ryberg
> Barrington IL