Was it something I said?

[Tony Caught]

Hi Greg

Saw the message, thought about answering and then decided that as I don't
know the Chase pianos so I can't guess at how good it will come up but.

What I do is not always the correct procedure because the correct procedure
often costs more than the piano is worth. I don't want to say "Do to the
value of pianos saleable price when finished" because this will cause
another ethical discussion of some sort because to do that you have to, at
times, gloss over things that you would prefer not to gloss over. And that
depends on your standards on what is a gloss over and what is not.

there are also a lot of un answered question to ask about why this or why
that before a proper answer could be given. What I am suggesting will not
have all the reasons why or alternatives and may be completely wrong in your
case but here goes.

----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Newell <gnewell@ameritech.net>
To: Pianotech, forum <pianotech@ptg.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 2:01 PM
Subject: Was it something I said?



>
>  Greetings folks,
> >     I need the advice of you treasured people who are so kind to find
> > the time to teach those clueless people like myself.
> >     I took in a piano for a customer who was having a property of
> theirs
> > demolished and needed to get the piano out in a hurry. She is having
> and
> > A.B.Chase (early 20's vintage) refinished, restrung, and action
> > overhauled for her family. I have had this piano in my home for about
> > three months acting as a big surface upon which to gather many many
> > useless items. I recently was preparing to begin the restringing
> process
> > and took down the tension on all the strings and removed the bass
> > strings. I plan to have Newton redesign the scale for this while ,
> > hopefully teaching me how to do it for future piano I may inflict my
> > talents upon. Since I took down the tension about a week ago I found
> > something rather startling. What began as one very shim able but not
> yet
> > seperated crack in the board has now become 6 or more two of which
> have
> > separated from the ribs at spots and are wide enough to see daylight
> > through. I would call the main crack to be about thick enough to slip
> a
> > thin guitar pick through. This particular one has the wood being
> uneven
> > on both side of the crack indicating it's separation from the ribs.

Does not indicate seperation from the ribs. Indicates a crack along the
grain not along the join.

> > Naturally this big one is right through the center of the board.
> >     I'd like the opinion of this list as to whether these cracks can
> or
> > should be repaired or is it time for another board?

Just because the soundboard has a few cracks in it does not mean its no
good.  Sounds like the humidity has dropped in your workshop from the time
you picked up the piano until now.
Check to see that you still have crown.
If you still have crown then you can say that the ribs are crowned OK and
that they only need refixing to the soundboard. Because you have cracks in
the board where the ribs may be loose you can put piano wire through the
crack, around the rib and a piece of timber on either side, put glue in the
seperation point, twist the wire to clamp together.

By shimming the cracks you can also cause damage. If the board is now too
dry and you shim it, when the board gets back its correct moisture content
it may cause the board to compress or buckle or pop of the ribs in other
places.  The ribs were more than likely glued on with animal glue and could
further seperate at any time if loaded with too much tension.

Try to look at the cracks as expansion joints, if the ribs are solid and you
have crown all that is nexessary is to stop the crack edges from vibrating
together. V the cracks and force white glue into the crack 2 or 3 times to
level.  White glue is flexible to a point and will contract and strech to a
point but it stops rattles and adds a bit of strength.
I've never left.

> > tension off a piano for this long before. Did I do a no no? If it is
> > your opinion that a new board and bridges are necessary then how would
>
> > you go about telling the customer of this added cost? Do you know
> anyone
> > in the Cleveland, OH area of perhaps PA area that you can recommend to
>
> > install a new board and do a job I could be proud to offer? Are there
> > any pitfalls along the way I should look out for? What could I expect
> to
> > pay for a board and bridges?

The above repair will take you maybe 4 hours. Do it this way and don't tell
your client anything.  The board sould come up to 90% of the origonal in
sound as against spending more than the piano may be worth in replacing the
soundboard for no real improvement in sound.

> >     I've only subcontracted once before and I got bit really bad that
> > time so I'm really gun shy. Thank you for the time and effort to
> > respond. I hope the coming days, months, and years bring you all
> > continued growth and prosperity.
> >

lots of people will disagree but you have to make the decission yourself as
to the outcome. Ask yourself " what does the customer want, a concert grand
or a good pianos with memories"


Regards

Tony Caught ICPTG
Australia
caute@optusnet.com.au

> > Greg
> >
>
> --
> Greg Newell
> Greg's Piano Forté
> 19270 Harlon Ave.
> Lakewood, Ohio 44107
> 216-226-3791
> mailto:gnewell@ameritech.net
>
>