Strange call

[Michael Jorgensen]

Hi Greg,
    I agree.   If I take a clean octave and tune, retune, and retune
checking it only melodically,  I can fool myself it is a good ocatave, and
always end up very sharp.  Putting it back into a clean octave makes it
sound flat.  IMHO this is a psychomelodic thing.
   Many years ago I experienced a tuning from an elderly gentleman that was
sadly "interesting".  The whole piano was fine, except the top octave.
Several notes were not in chromatic order, yet formed beatless intervals
with the lower note.  Some unisons on those notes were tuned to thirds which
were also beatless.
-Mike Jorgensen.

Greg Newell wrote:

> Ron,
>     While I don't disagree with what you mention here I think the
> phenomenon is simpler than that in many cases. I found that even early on
> in my aural tuning career, (I just started using an ETD 3 yrs ago), I
> tuned noticeably sharp if I tuned by playing the octaves in the high
> treble starting with the lower note followed by the higher note rather
> than simultaneously. I've found that tuning that way as opposed to
> simultaneous sounding of the two notes caused me to stretch the notes
> higher. When I sounded the notes together I was able to pick up the beats
> easier and thus stretched them less. I think that perhaps this is more in
> line with what may be happening. Older tuners seemingly can't register
> and react to the decay in a quick enough fashion to hear what's happening
> so we/they overcompensate so as to not have a dead sounding high treble.
> Any Thoughts?
>
> Greg Newell
>
> Overs Pianos wrote:
>
> > Terry, Patrick, Ron N and list,
> >
> > I suspect that the phenomenon you are describing, is something I have
> > discovered to be a symptom of acoustic trauma. As we get older we
> > tend to require the tuning stretch to be more extreme to satisfy our
> > ageing sense of pitch.
> >
> > When I was a young tuner in my early twenties, I used to do
> > occasional work for the local Bösendorfer agent. This elderly man was
> > a 'tuner technician' from a particularly old school. The man was
> > seventy plus and the tuning skills which he may have once had,
> > unfortunately had long since departed. Now this elderly gentleman had
> > quite a large tuning clientele, and when he finally retired out the
> > Sydney area many of his clients came to me for service (ie. of the
> > piano variety). In almost every case, by C88, the pitch was pulled
> > sharp to the E flat above the C88. 'Deaf as a post', he was.
> >
> > After four years in the tuning business I began to work for the
> > Australian Broadcasting Corporation. This brought me in contact with
> > many concert artists (several of whom had practiced for many hours a
> > day for many years). Some had clearly developed hearing damage and
> > loss. As a technician, the amount of stretch we put in a piano will
> > always be a matter of judgement (for the aural tuner at least), and I
> > have on many occasions sought the opinion of the pianist as to their
> > preferred stretch. I have noticed that pianists with greater hearing
> > loss (over the years you get to know the symptoms) prefer more
> > stretch in the extreme treble. This I believe, is also the reason why
> > concert artists with hearing loss prefer pianos to be voiced much
> > brighter than those younger players who are yet to lose their
> > hearing. To accommodate this problem when I was doing a lot of
> > concert tuning, when tuning for a pianist for the first time, I would
> > try to listen to a couple of their Cd recordings and note their age
> > also, to assess their possible hearing damage. Using this
> > information, I would set the piano voicing to a suitable level, in an
> > attempt to satisfy the performer. Thus, if the pianist was older and
> > probably deafer, I would tend to delay voicing that piano which had
> > got a little bright. Instead, I might just voice back a few of the
> > brighter notes in the 'high traffic' areas to keep the voicing
> > uniform, but maintain the overall level of brightness. On the other
> > hand, if I was tuning for a young rising star, I might voice back the
> > entire piano if it had got a little bright. After all, concert
> > instruments require some voicing every month or two. It just seemed a
> > good idea to time those service intervals, allowing the voicing level
> > to rise and fall slightly, timing it to the schedule of the
> > performers and their level of hearing loss.
> >
> > One thing's for sure, older piano technicians and orchestral players
> > alike, are likely to be suffering from some considerable hearing
> > loss, and will tend to prefer pianos which are stretched to the
> > 'hilt' and voiced to simulate breaking glass.
> >
> > At forty seven I must be heading in that direction.
> >
> > Regards to all,
> >
> > Ron O
> > --
> >
> > _________________________
> >
> > Website:  http://www.overspianos.com.au
> > Email:      mailto:ron@overspianos.com.au
> > _________________________
>
> --
> Greg Newell
> Greg's Piano Forté
> 19270 Harlon Ave.
> Lakewood, Ohio 44107
> 216-226-3791
> mailto:gnewell@ameritech.net