ETD Unisons was something else

[Richard Brekne]

Don Rose wrote:

> Hi Richard,
>
> Just because one partial lines up with another doesn't mean the rest do the
> same.

er... grin.. of course not. But since an ETD s only listens to one partial at a
time I am not sure I understand your point.

> I believe the ear *locks* onto the loudest partial and that an aural
> unison is a composite sound where the ear tries to balance all the partials
> to the limits of it's resolution. Coupling muddies the waters of this. For
> an edt to do this it would have to simultaniously measure 8 to 16
> partials--and do some sort of "balanced" display of them all. And it would
> have to have the resolution to listen to *2* such partial ladders. (3 would
> be better)

Ah... I think I see what you are getting at... but why would you want the ETD to
copy the ears way of tuning unisons in the first place ? ETD's are based on
calculated curves for one partial at any given time. Why then should the ETD do
anything else then listen to one partial at at time. In any case it doesn't, and
so what all these other partials do or don't is kinda superfluous in this context.
Trying to tune unisons "two strings at a time" with an ETD would simply be
insisting that both strings coupled match the calculated frequency for that
partial. The only thing that could muddy that would be falsness on the part of one
or the other string at the relevant partial... or what ? Course you'd have to
rough them in pretty close first either by ear or one at a time with the ETD.

The other concern I could see is that this way of doing a unison would possibly
result in a unison that didnt sound so great because of the insistance on matching
one particular partial. But that would be the case doing it single string at at
time, and in addition single string at a time would have to compensate for pitch
change due to coupling.

All in all, I still dont see how anything else then falsness at the relavant
partial should present a problem for the ETD to solve when attempting to tune a
unison by sounding two strings at a time.

come on back...grin.


>
>
> At 07:49 PM 03/23/2001 +0100, you wrote:
> >
> >Don and others...
> >
> >Wanted to get back to this before taking off for the first part of the
> weekend.
> >I gotta admit I am a bit thoughtfull about whats been said so far.  If the
> ETD
> >sees two strings that have clean partials for the partial being used,
> whats the
> >problem ?? Why would an ETD have any problem resolving that at all ? Ok, you
> >have to go back and forth a bit to deal with changes in pitch due to
> coupling,
> >but as long as there is no falsness coming from any strings at the relavant
> >partial then you should think there would be no problem getting a phase
> display
> >to come clean. You end up sort of tuning the note relevant to its spot in the
> >tuning curve and the unison itself at the same time... kinda similiar to the
> >descriptions I have heard about how Virgil handles his unisons / octaves.
> >
> >It would seem to me that tuning one string at a time is just asking for
> >problems. For one you have to guess a bit at any pitch change due to
> coupling.
> >For the second any falsness that is present in either string is going to
> present
> >exactly the same problem (or perhaps even a bit worse ) to the phase display.
> >
> >In anycase my experience with tuning unisons with Tunelab or Cyberear tell me
> >that the major problem with doing this is not so much that its difficult
> to get
> >a good match on the partial being read, quite the opposite.. that one doesnt
> >have any way of taking into consideration the behaviour of the rest of the
> >envelope.
> >
> >
> >Have a good weekend folks.
> >
> >
> >--
> >Richard Brekne
> >RPT, N.P.T.F.
> >Bergen, Norway
> >mailto:Richard.Brekne@grieg.uib.no
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> Regards,
> Don Rose, B.Mus., A.M.U.S., A.MUS., R.M.T., R.P.T.
>
> Tuner for the Saskatchewan Centre of the Arts
>
> drose@dlcwest.com
> http://donrose.xoasis.com/
>
> 3004 Grant Rd.
> REGINA, SK
> S4S 5G7
> 306-352-3620 or 1-888-29t-uner

--
Richard Brekne
RPT, N.P.T.F.
Bergen, Norway
mailto:Richard.Brekne@grieg.uib.no