Larudee's mystery - Was: Ditch the tuning pin bushings

[Joseph Garrett]

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David,
The answer to #1 is: I do not use these tapered pins. Nor, do I use any =
pin smaller than 2/0 for restringing purposes, unless it is a =
restoration of an antique type piano. To clarify the configuration of a =
"tapered" tuning pin: the top of the tuning pin is larger than the =
bottom threaded end.
#2: I agree that a certain amount of flex is needed and I certainly do =
not approach the Plate Bushing with the idea of making the pin less =
flexable. However, as we all know, excessive flag-poling can be a real =
pain, in the tuning process. My personal feeling is that, if the plate =
webbing is more than 1/8" thick, (which most are), then a properly =
installed plate bushing will help, not hinder the tuning pin feel.
regards,
Joe Garrett
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: David Skolnik=20
  To: pianotech@ptg.org=20
  Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 10:38 AM
  Subject: Larudee's mystery - Was: Ditch the tuning pin bushings


  Paul, Joe-

  Joe, it sounds to me as though Paul is describing something different. =
Paul, I guess we could find out your special reason directly from you, =
or by getting in touch with one of two Davids.  I'm not clear on the =
engineering, however, for starts the implication here is that the =
benefit of the smaller pin resides in its smaller string coils rather =
than the total surface area in contact with the block.  I'm not clear as =
to why you would want additional stiffness in that area of the pin =
unless you think the pins are being pulled forward due to insufficient =
surface area (part of pin in the block itself) or due to excessive =
flexing.   If you are talking about repinning with these, two problems =
come to mind:
  1) Given the current discussion of pins already in contact with the =
plate, it seems to me you would have a bit of a problem installing them, =
unless you were to drive them in from the bottom of the block.  That =
would certainly be something to write about.
  2) As a few on this topic have mentioned, and with whom I agree,  a =
small degree of flex is a useful fine tuning tool.  It would seem that, =
by stiffening the pin up to the coils, and then reducing the size at the =
top, you would be directing the flex force to one, already weakened area =
of the pin (string hole). =20

  Share your thought, and how much did you pay for them (the pins, that =
is)?

  David Skolnik




  At 09:23 AM 05/14/2001 -0700, you wrote:

    Paul,
    Many years ago, Piano Manufacturers actually used a tuning pin like =
you describe. It is called a tapered tuning pin. They had many =
advantages. One of which is, slight tapping of one that is considered =
loose, fixed the problem. These pins were approx. #1 pin size at the =
bottom and approx. 3/0 at the top. (that is not a typo: #1 tuning pin =
dia.=3D.265"). Hope this clarifies for you.
    Regards,=20
    Joe Garrett, R.P.T.

      ----- Original Message -----=20
      From: larudee@pacbell.net=20
      To: pianotech@ptg.org=20
      Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 7:40 AM
      Subject: Re: Ditch the tuning pin bushings

      Del & David,=20

      What about a tuning pin that is oversize from just under the coils =
down and size 1/0 or 2/0 from there up?  That would give added stiffness =
to the pin in the portion that passes through the webbing without =
sacrificing the better torque and smaller string coils that you get with =
standard size pins.  It also allows reuse of the old pin block (if it is =
in good condition) while still retaining the benefits of standard size =
pins.  (David Love and David Ilvedson know that I have a special reason =
for asking this question.)=20

      Paul Larudee=20
       =20
       =20

      David Skolnik wrote:=20

         At 11:22 PM 05/13/2001 -0700, you wrote:=20
         =20

          Another thought though; someone mentioned to me the problem of =
restringing=20
          with oversize pins -- something I'd not really thought about =
since we don't=20
          do this.=20

          Del

        Del-=20
        Could you make clear what size pin qualifies as "oversized", =
assuming that 2/0 was the original?  Thanks.=20

        David Skolnik=20
         =20
         =20
        =20



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