stability of pitch raises (Ron's question)

[David Love]

Ron et al:

To clarify my previous posts, I consider a pitch raise one that requires an
overpull of pitch to get the piano back to A440 followed by a second fine
tuning.   Raising a piano to pitch in one pull when the piano is not off
pitch far enough to warrant a second pass does not constitute a "pitch
raise", at least for billing purposes.

David Love

----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg Newell" <gnewell@ameritech.net>
To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
Sent: September 02, 2001 9:16 PM
Subject: Re: stability of pitch raises (Ron's question)


> Ron,
>     First, I don't charge extra for a pitch raise/tuning done in one pass.
If I
> may offer a guess as to why some might it would simply be that ETD's cost
money.
> Since the pitch raise is one of their primary feature's perhaps some
justify that
> this is a way to recoup this part of the investment.
>     O.K. I'll admit that I am just grasping at straws here with that last
> statement but it does leave me an opening to pose a question regarding
pitch
> raises. Has anyone ever tried (using an ETD, of course) doing the first
pass
> simply to pitch and the second pass with the overpull feature? What I mean
is
> taking a stock tuning for XYZ piano and tuning only to stop the lights,
strobe,
> whatever in one, fast, single pass. Immediately after that is finished
either use
> that same "stock" tuning or measure and create a new one and then
incorporate the
> overpull feature all the ETD's now have. I find this intriguing because it
seems
> to be easier to use TuneLab this way  and probably would be for Cybertuner
as
> well. I found, just today, that tuning chromatically with that "stock
tuning" on
> a piano that was over a whole step flat was faster NOT trying to measure
the
> notes for overpull during the first pass. I felt that even the overpull
feature
> would not leave me very close from that far away and I was more interested
in
> speed than accuracy anyway. I'm a firm believer in speed the first time
through
> because I feel that I'm not giving it a chance to fluctuate away from me
if I go
> fast enough.
>     Long story short I got pretty acceptable in tow fast passes from over
200
> cents. No broken strings. Never will be stable with only that but it can
be
> played. What say ye?
>
> Greg
>
> Ron Nossaman wrote:
>
> > OK folks,
> > I got a couple of good responses to the actual question early on, but
this
> > has once again wandered off into a series of answers not relating to the
> > question asked. The question was, and still is:
> >
> > ************************************************************************
> > If folks are habitually doing two pass tunings anyway, and since they're
> > probably using an ETD that does pitch raises within a couple of cents of
> > dead on in one pass (as we read repeatedly), why would they find it
> > necessary to charge anything above the cost of a tuning for a pitch
> > adjustment?
> > ***********************************************************************
> >
> > I do, believe me, understand that it takes longer and is more work to do
a
> > two pass pitch raise and tuning than a one pass tuning. I also
understand,
> > believe me, that you can't do a substantial (no numbers, just somewhere
off
> > pitch) pitch correction as accurately in one pass as in two. That's why
I
> > didn't ask that particular question - nor am I likely to. I am, in
> > practice, an active tuner/technician, and live this stuff on a daily
basis
> > so I'm quite familiar with the reactions of pianos to pitch adjustments.
I
> > don't need the sales pitch, I'm merely asking for an explanation
answering
> > my question. If anyone is interesting in clearing this up for me, please
> > read the question again and, if what you habitually do corresponds to
the
> > question in that you (1) habitually do two pass tunings, (2) tune with
an
> > ETD, and (3) charge extra for pitch adjustments, I'd like to hear your
> > reasoning justifying the extra charge.
> >
> > I also asked another related question regarding how those who charge for
> > pitch adjustments based on how far off pitch the piano is, determine how
> > far off pitch the piano is. I still haven't gotten an answer on this
one,
> > which baffles me. This has gotten so much traffic through the years that
I
> > was sure I'd get a veritable avalanche of cogent and clever methods from
> > those who habitually quote cents deviation in their posts about pitch
> > adjustments. How can one compute charges on something they can't define?
> >
> > Maybe it's just me, but I find honest answers to these sort of simple
> > fundamental questions to be far more valuable, as well as far more
> > difficult to get, than information on how to get tape residue off of
keytops.
> >
> > Ron N
>
> --
> Greg Newell
> Greg's Piano Forté
> 12970 Harlon Ave.
> Lakewood, Ohio 44107
> 216-226-3791
> mailto:gnewell@ameritech.net
>
>
>