Basic Action Design/Performance Question

[Farrell]

> So, I don't think there is any one answer to your question.

Yeah, but you gave me lots of good ones. Thanks very much.

> Just how big was that Bergman?

Not sure what you are getting at here. Similar to the Walter. 6' 3" or so.
But based on your other comments, I believe you answer will be that the
actions in the Walter and Bergman, having been optimized, will perform to a
similar standard.

Thanks for your input. I had a question that was difficult to express. I
realize that I basically asked the same question 4 times. I'm not sure I
accuratey conveyed what I was asking (my fault). But nevertheless, I do
believe you have answered my question.

Terry Farrell

----- Original Message -----
From: "Delwin D Fandrich" <pianobuilders@olynet.com>
To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 1:22 AM
Subject: Re: Basic Action Design/Performance Question


>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Farrell" <mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com>
> To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
> Sent: September 24, 2001 5:57 AM
> Subject: Basic Action Design/Performance Question
>
>
> > Is there inherently any difference between improved versions of grand
> > actions?
>
> Not that I'm aware of. Or between unimproved versions of grand actions,
for
> that. Now, having said that, with one or two notable exceptions I would
> expect to find action regulation being done a bit better on a more
expensive
> piano. It isn't always, but I'd expect it. Action regulation is one of the
> very few piano building functions left machines haven't been taught to do.
> And, presumably, the manufacturer of the more expensive piano should be
able
> to devote the time to do this operation right.
>
>
> >
> > I know that a new Bechstein or Walter action may well play better
> > than your average new Samick or Bergman - but isn't a lot of that
inferior
> > materials, glues, manufacturing, etc.?
>
> Or good materials not properly conditioned. We seem to go through this
with
> each new country piano manufacturing spreads to. It takes them a while to
> learn the value of wood moisture control. But sticking to two of your
> examples, just what is the difference between the Bechstein Renner action
> and the Samick Renner action? Mostly how well set-up and regulated they
are
> at the factory.
>
>
> >
> > Take two divergent actions from
> > similar sized pianos - a Walter and a Bergman. Now give both actions to
> the
> > Willis & David Snyder shop & David Stanwood. Let them replace any parts
> they
> > want and optimize all they will. Now I realize the Bergman action will
> still
> > seem bad when it is placed into the Bergman cavity - but let's just
assume
> > that Del Fandrich (or whoever) works all kinds of magic and somehow
> > reproduced a Walter-like grand belly within the Bergman frame (ok, ok,
> just
> > stretching it a bit, but this is an action question - use your
> imagination).
> > Now you are putting these two actions into similar pianos. Can they both
> > play to a similar potential?
>
> Just how big was that Bergman?
>
>
> >
> > I hope this doesn't sound like too goofy a question. I guess I'm asking
> > whether a Young Chang (or whatever generally viewed lower quality
action)
> > can be made to play as well as any good quality action (neglecting the
> > difference in pianos - which I fully realize can dramatically affect the
> way
> > an action performs)?
>
> I don't see why not. I certainly have my preferences on some of the
> details--I like laminated wood action rails and slightly firmer action
felts
> than are typical on most actions. I also prefer hard maple to hornbeam.
But
> I don't know just how important these things are to the average player.
The
> rest is in the setup and balancing and you've said we can change that.
>
>
> >
> > Does this make any sense? Perhaps I am asking "besides material quality,
> > design, manufacturing, etc. (and the piano it is installed in), is there
> > anything else (magical?) about an action that makes one superior to
> another
> > one?
>
> Along with the homogenization of piano design has come an even greater
> degree of homogenization in actions. Just how much difference in design is
> left?
>
> Look at the pianos we rebuild from the first half of the 20th century; all
> kinds of different and unique actions. Each with its own flavor and feel.
> Now look at the pianos of today. Most so-called high-end pianos use Renner
> actions--as do many low- and mid-range pianos--with only minor variations
in
> how they are set up. And those Renner action of today are patterned after
> the Steinway butterfly spring action. And most manufacturers using their
own
> actions have also adapted this standardized format.
>
> It's kind of like an auto industry with each manufacturer having its own
> slight variation of just one single engine design. Think what it would be
> like if every car you looked at came with just the one size and type of
> engine block. Perhaps you could get different cylinder heads (hammers)
from
> each different manufacturers (though even those would come from just two
> different factories) and maybe even a different transmission (keys) which,
> again, would come from just a couple of different suppliers, but the
engine
> block would be the same for each. There would, of course, be a couple of
> very large manufacturers who were willing to devote the resources to
> manufacture their own engines, heads and transmissions but for reasons of
> conformity to the industry standard they also would build engines that
> looked and performed just like all the others. Our choices of individual
> performance levels would be greatly diminished.
>
> We've nearly reached this point in the piano industry. I don't see a lot
of
> differences among the various manufacturers actions.
>
>
> >
> > I have heard before - "Well, Mrs. Pianobuyer, that piano is not a
> > Steenburger, and it will never play like a Steenburger." Is that because
> the
> > seller does not know how to do it? Does not think it is worth the money
to
> > do it? Or that it can't be done?
>
> In some cases I think it's a matter of not knowing how to do a thing.
Piano
> manufacturers get caught up in the business of manufacturing and lose
track
> of what it is they are supposed to be doing--building musical instruments.
> I've had factory managers tell me that if the price is low enough it
doesn't
> matter how well the piano works--somebody will buy it.
>
> So, I don't think there is any one answer to your question.
>
> Del
>