Sigh. This was a painful exchange to read. The request for WAV files was appropriate because it would be objective. Statements of personal animosity are not useful to anyone -- not to the reader and certainly not to the writer either. The net effect is to create an audience expectation of "oh no, another diatribe." This applies to both the HT and the soundboard feuds. It is admirable to be passionate about your work, but please try to remain a bit more objective and a bit less defensive. || ||| || ||| || ||| || ||| || ||| || ||| || ||| || ||| jason kanter * piano tuning * piano teaching bellevue, wa * 425 562 4127 * cell 425 831 1561 orcas island * 360 376 2799 || ||| || ||| || ||| || ||| || ||| || ||| || ||| || ||| > From: Billbrpt@AOL.COM > Reply-To: pianotech@ptg.org > Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 13:44:36 EST > To: pianotech@ptg.org > Subject: Re: 1/7 Meantone Inappropriate for Beethoven? > > >> Bill, >> >> Could you put your tape to a wave file? Maybe the rest of us, (at least me) >> would like to hear. Possibly put this to bed...so to speak. >> >> Many thanks, >> >> Bob Moffatt > > > I don't have any way of doing that. The original was made on a DAT Walkman > and I have a standard cassette copy of that. I don't have any way of > transferring that to a CD or to a WAVE file but even if I did, there would be > quite a bit of distortion, namely wow and flutter. > > I am well aware that there were some people who thought the 1/7 Comma > Meantone sounded out of tune. Almost any HT will sound that way to some > people, especially piano technicians who are not accustomed to hearing them. > Two men from Steinway came to listen to the piano as I had work in progress > and the young lady whom Ed practically says I assaulted was practicing. They > asked her if the piano was OK and she indicated that it was. > > Later on, she was heard to say that the key of Ab "really pops" but not > meaning that in a negative way. The men from Steinway said to me frankly and > in a cajoling (if not patronizing) tone, "Bill, that sounds OUT OF TUNE!". > While I was disappointed at their reaction, it was not unexpected. They told > Kent that the piano should not be allowed to be presented that way. I have > walked out of every Steinway recital I have ever been at since 1990 thinking > the same thing. ET sounds out of tune to me. > > I really wanted Kent to announce the fact that the piano was tuned in an HT > but he refused. As far as I'm concerned, the fault lies with that decision, > not any that I made. The 1/7 Comma Meantone has been determined to be a > temperament useful for any type of music although it is probably at the > strong end of the threshold for that. There was a time when I was tuning it > for everyone as the person who persuaded me to do so, Tim Farley RPT > suggested I could and should. I did so until one day I got burnt by a phone > call from none other than a Baldwin grand customer saying she couldn't play > Beethoven because there were "dissonances". I had to retune that piano to > EBVT. > > My decision to use the 1/7 Comma Meantone was based on the opinion mainly > from Mr. Farley that the EBVT is "too mild, too much like ET" to even be > worth doing. In other words, if you're going to do an HT, do one with some > real spice in it. > > My opinion of Ed is that he has consistently been known to regard Madison > tuners, especially me as a bunch of nut case kooks who make life difficult > for him. His opinion of the 1/7 Comma Meantone was and is still based on > pure ignorance and emotion. The "mean" part of the word Meantone is what > scares him. > > Ed also claims that the tuning I did in Milwaukee in 1993 drove people away > from the HT idea. This was the first time that I had used the early form of > the EBVT and where Jim Coleman and Virgil Smith expressed great interest. > Farley said it sounded "too sweet" and that there was hardly any difference > from ET. Farley had his own class where far stronger temperaments were > presented, including 1/4 Comma Meantone. I remember at least one person > getting up and walking out saying, "That sounds out of tune!". > > When the Temperament Festival of 1998 came along, I really would have rather > presented the 1/7 Comma Meantone for the very reasons of its strength and > "electrifying" key of Ab. I chose not to for two reasons, however: it was > too much like Paul Bailey RPT's own Meantone and I knew that if I was going > to *win* this contest, I would have to do something that a majority of folks > would find favorable. That I did, so it seems a little far fetched to me > that in a period of 5 years, hordes of people could be driven out of the room > ready to get a law passed against a style of tuning they would later vote 4:1 > as being "more musical" sounding than Virgil Smith's ET. > > These experiences, of course are why I have been concentrating my efforts on > the EBVT. I'll be doing a recording session with 2 pianos tomorrow, in fact. > I only do the 1/7 Comma Meantone by request. Not even a month ago, Tim > Farley hosted a concert where the entire program of Beethoven, Schubert and > Tchaikovsky was played and recorded in 1/7 Comma Meantone. He has made > numerous CDs of mostly Romantic era music, often with Beethoven in that > temperament. > > I am well aware of what the few (not 50% as Ed claims) found offensive about > the 1/7 Comma Meantone and that Beethoven piece. I forget at the moment the > Opus # but it was the sonata called "Apassionata". There is a section in F > minor where a trill is played between Ab and C that is supposed to sound like > ghosts wailing in a graveyard. The extra width of that interval gives it a > particularly "howling" sound. This does not happen in ET, of course. HT > enthusiasts believe that a composer such as Beethoven would deliberately > choose a strong key to emphasize such an effect or emotion. The idea today > of negating the effect with ET is what I consider to be wrong and > inappropriate. > > Those who found that sound to be "out of tune" simply were not used to > hearing that kind of sound and certainly did not expect it. Any Well > Tempered Tuning, Modified Meantone or mild Meantone would have produced a > similar effect, it would just be a matter of how much effect. The EBVT would > also produce this effect but far more mildly. > > This, of course is Ed's point and I contend that it is the Uncle Tom > approach. It is better to kow-tow to the wrath of a few who will make > trouble by serving up something so weak that it is hardly noticeable than to > risk producing a truly startling effect that may not be agreeable to everyone. > > I would not have any reservation whatsoever about tuning the 1/7 Comma > Meantone again for the very same program and ata PTG Convention. I would > only want the audience to be informed about what to expect. I in turn, would > still expect that some people would not like it and some would choose not to > attend, just as I do not like ET and would not attend a recital in ET. > > The electrifying effect of the key of Ab in the Schubert Impromptu in this > same program added immensely to the character of the piece. I could tell > that the very gifted young man who played it noticed the effect and used it > to his advantage. I also recall former PTG President Marshall Hawkins RPT > complimenting the way the Bach piece in that program sounded. If the young > lady was not as well prepared as she should have been, that was not my fault > nor would her performance have been helped much by ET. I wanted to tell her > what to expect and how to handle it but I was not allowed to do so. > > I think Ed reacted the way he did because he saw an opportunity to put > himself forward in the eyes of the people he saw were upset. This was his > chance to "score" and that's what he did and is still doing it today. I > don't take orders from Ed, I don't make the choices he does and I certainly > don't tune the piano the way he does and never will. Until Ed learns to tune > the 1/7 Comma Meantone, makes a recording of the Beethoven Apassionata sonata > in it, I'll always consider his remarks an assault, I'll always remember his > threat of physical violence against me and I'll always consider him to be the > Uncle Tom of HT tuners. > > Bill Bremmer RPT > Madison, Wisconsin > <A HREF="http://www.billbremmer.com/">Click here: -=w w w . b i l l b r e m m > e r . c o m =-</A> >
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