key dip, dip in.....

[antares]

> From: Richard Brekne <Richard.Brekne@grieg.uib.no>
> Reply-To: Pianotech <pianotech@ptg.org>
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 14:03:57 +0200
> To: Pianotech <pianotech@ptg.org>
> Subject: Re: key dip
> 
> antares wrote:
> 
>> I personally have come to the conclusion that there is actually just one key
>> dip and that key dip is 10 mm sharp, and no more than 10 mm.
>> All piano makers in the world have a key dip of 10 mm except the earlier
>> Pleyels, Blüthners and modern Steinways.... although, when I had my lessons
>> at Steinway the head technician at the regulation department told me that he
>> thought a key dip of less than 10 mm on any Steinway was bloody baloney.
> 
> First off... I have 6 manuals in front of me. 4 of them official manufacturers
> specifications. I quote from these for your edification.
> 
> Schimmel Grands
> 
> Over 2 meters --- key dip 10.4 -10.8
> Under 2 meters -- key dip 10.2 - 10.6
> Blow ranges from 44 to 46 in the specifications, and 44 to 48 in the grand
> requlating guide.
> 
> Schimmel Uprights
> 
> Key dip 10.2 +/- 0.2, and 9.9 +/- 0.2 for pre 1985 models. blow 43 / 46
> 
> Yamaha grands
> 
> Key dip 10 mm +/- 0.2. Laroy Edwards gives 10 mm and says temper this with
> common sense and a knowledge of action function.
> 
> Kawaii Grands
> 
> Key dip for KG-8 is 11 mm, all other models is 10.5
> blow is 46 -48
> 
> I could go on and document factory  specifications that range from 9.5 to 11
mm 
> quite
> easily. Again I must insist that there is no basis for demanding that the 10
> mm key
> dip has shown itself to be the best. Nor is it true that all or even the
> extreme
> majority of manufacturers specify this. I will go along with that close to 10
> mm is
> a good norm, and it is indeed the one I choose. But to declare it as a
> universal
> holy grail I will not.


OK brother,

Touché and very clever.

But....
On the other hand, the average key dip in the world is 10 mm and the
majority of all pianists wants 10 mm.

When I started learning piano stuff on the piano technical school I learned
that key dip is 10 mm.
When I started as an apprentice at Goldschmeding (then the biggest piano
store in Amsterdam) a special key dip tool was made for me to make sure that
my key dip should always be 10mm.
When I went to Bösendorfer for factory training, they made sure I understood
that key dip was 10 mm.
When I went to the Yamaha they trained me (as I said before) for one week to
learn what exactly a 10 mm key dip feels like.
Afterwards I received a regulation and service manual (the authentic Yamaha
"Basic piano technology book") where on page 155, Chapter VII of Grand
regulation, a key dip is given of exactly 10 mm with a striking distance of
46-48 mm.
Then I went to Steinway where they taught me to forget about the lesser
Steinway key depth (9.8 or something?) for all models from S to B and
instead go ahead with the usual 10 mm.
And last autumn I went to Bechstein in Berlin where exactly the same 10 mm
is applied to all instruments.

And...
after all the countless regulations I made on all kinds of makes, I now
insist on a key dip of 10 mm, whether the striking distance is 40 or 50 mm.
If any factory prescribes a key dip of more or less, than I say : they do
not conform to the key dip that has been developed during the last 100 or so
years. When the most well known and very best piano makers in the world use
a key dip of 10 mm, than I have reason to learn from them and make those 10
mm my own.

During all those years of learning the process of regulation I have had a
thorough experience in experimenting with a key dip of 10 plus or minus.
After my lessons at Yamaha I knew better, and 10 mm it will be.
When I now regulate a grand piano I make it a sport to make a very very
precise key dip with the biggest striking distance possible.
This means : a very sharp regulation with a dot on every i.
I (almost) always succeed in making a delicious and safe regulation with
enough after touch. After finishing a regulation the moment of truth comes :
I go to my tool bag and get out the yellow Yamaha striking distance gauge I
have not yet used during regulation, and I measure hammer section after
hammer section. Usually I get my reward for precision work with a full 46 mm
and often I get a bonus with 47 or even more.

That always means getting a well regulated action with a safe touch, and a
lot of power.
We have done exactly that on the STW B in Bergen during the seminar and it
came out beautiful, so why not accept the approved (by almost all) standard
and use the 10 mm as the reliable basis it really is?





>> In regard to making key dip : I had to train one whole week to learn what a
>> perfect key dip is.
> 
> Hmmm... interesting concept... the perfect key dip. Could you describe that
> for us
> in terms of regulating specifications ?

Because making the right key dip is actually very difficult (as it relies on
individual finger pressure) I had several minor misunderstandings over this
issue with my instructor (a very fine Japanese gentleman who spoke very good
English as he had been stationed in London for a number of years as a
concert technician). When he finally began to understand that I was just
plain dumb and ignorant he got out "the weight". This was a small weight of
exactly 250 grams which the use as an example for making key dip.
So they place the weight on the (white) key and then you place your key dip
block in front of it in order to feel the dip with your fingers.
You then train with this weight for a long time to make sure that you
understand exactly how hard to push with your finger/key depth gauge to get
exactly the desired 10 mm.


> 
>> 
>> After that, when I read about various key dips, I always feel this urge to
>> open up the magic box and type in the words I just typed in.
> 
> Heck Andre... agree or not... I respect and admire your advices and
> expererience in
> all things piano !

Hey Ricardo mio! 
when we meet again, the next 5 rounds of anything drinkable are mine...OK?
or should I have said 10?  (;

With even higher elevated friendly greetings
from

Antares,

Amsterdam, Holland

"where music is, no harm can be"

visit my website at :  http://www.concertpianoservice.nl/