after touch and key dip

[Isaac OLEG]

To be hang in big letters (the sketch you made me!)

Thanks Andre, terrific information.

People yet have some thoughts about "Japanese" pianos , if only they
knew ...


With softer front punching I guess you have soft landing in any case,
is not it ? (I bet we don't regulate so the letoff happens in the
punching)

With kind regards.

Isaac O



> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : pianotech-bounces@ptg.org
> [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org]De la
> part de antares
> Envoye : mardi 22 octobre 2002 01:02
> A : Pianotech
> Objet : after touch and key dip
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > From: David Andersen <bigda@gte.net>
> > Reply-To: Pianotech <pianotech@ptg.org>
> > Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 09:34:16 -0700
> > To: "Pianotech" <pianotech@ptg.org>
> > Subject: Re: key dip, dip in.....
> >
> >> This means : a very sharp regulation with a dot on every i.
> >> I (almost) always succeed in making a delicious and safe
> regulation with
> >> enough after touch.
> >
> >> We have done exactly that on the STW B in Bergen during
> the seminar and it
> >> came out beautiful, so why not accept the approved (by
> almost all) standard
> >> and use the 10 mm as the reliable basis it really is?
> >
> > Fascinating.  Please share your exact method for making
> the 10mm key dip.
> > Do you change key height
> > as well as front rail punchings?
>
> OK. Let us assume we would have to work on a Yamaha grand.
>
> First we check the way it plays and the sound it gives.
> That will give an
> initial impression.
> Than we take out the Yamaha key frame tool (key frame bolt
> regulator and the
> Yamaha key depth block (the brown one).
> I check the key dip the way I have learned it at Yamaha by
> pressing down the
> key with the pressure of about 250 grams (seams very normal
> and easy but
> took me along time to master) and I move the key depth
> block from left to
> right and back, to make sure that that, if the key is not strictly
> horizontal, both sides have the same outcome/result.
>
> We always have to change the key dip as the key bed moves
> along with the
> humidity, due to the change of season.
>
> So we measure the key height and it should be 64 (if it is
> not a CFIII-S).
> If the key dip is like 9.5 mm and the key height is 63+ it
> is an easy
> matter : we just raise the frame a little and make sure
> that afterwards the
> frame is connected tight enough on all pressure points with
> the key bed at
> the same time.
> Most (Yamaha) techs are more or less a little tolerant
> about the key height
> not being exactly 64 as it is also a matter of economy, that's
> understandable.
> If the key dip is 10 mm but the key height is 66 we have a problem.
> In that case we can not put on the blindfold and just pretend that
> everything is ok, so it means an extra hour of work by
> adjusting frame and
> paper punching.
> As a last check I bang on the piano to make sure I hear no
> rattle coming
> from a loose key frame.
>
>
> >Why is a "sharp regulation" so crucial
> > to proper key dip?   What is your method of finely refining the
> > aftertouch, or "notch?"
>
> First of all, sharps seem a forgotten chapter with many
> technicians. They
> don't like to delve deep with their fingers or tweezers
> into/under the white
> keys...it is always a nuisance because it is extra work..... If it
> works...it works.
> Of course every sharp is an active member of the family so
> if we feel
> responsible enough we - must - do the job.
> The height of the sharps should be 12 mm and we should
> check them with a
> straight edge.
> If we make an exact 10 mm white key dip than that is our
> basis for the
> regulation.
> That is why the preliminary activities of adjusting of key
> height and key
> dip are so important : The pianist starts playing the
> instrument by putting
> his hands/fingers down on the keys, and that is where it all starts.
> The very first impression is the most important one : it
> causes trust, or
> mis-trust.
>
> When I did not know very much about grand regulation, I
> used to check the
> striking distance with this yellow Yamaha measuring tool.
> >From concert-Yamaha techs I learned how to go without this
> tool and play it
> by 'feel' and it was a very important learning moment for me.
> Actually it is amazingly simple and should be taught at all
> piano tech
> schools :
>
> We draw a curved line which represents the striking distance.
> It ends just before the string as let off takes place.
> Drop follows, and the up-going line goes down sharply for a
> very short
> while.
> At the end of this short line going down we draw a
> horizontal line : we have
> reached the bottom, which is the front punching.
> A perfect after-touch should be a movement of about 0.4 mm
> when we press the
> key - gently - down into the punching.
> Pianists often find this moment of after-touch the most
> important one and
> three after-touch possibilities should be available to them :
> 'Hard landing, neutral/medium landing, soft landing'.
>
> Hard landing means an after-touch of 0.1 mm - 0.2 mm
> Neutral/medium landing is 0.4 mm
> Soft landing is anything more than 0.4 mm but I would say
> no more than 1,5
> mm.
>
> A very small after-touch of 0.1 mm - 0.2 mm (hard landing)
> is the most
> economical use of time and energy (which is what regulation
> is all about).
> Very little movement is lost, the tone is loudest and
> hitting the front
> punching feels very firm and maybe a little hard.
>
> A neutral/medium landing is safer, as there is literally
> more generous space
> available for the jack to move from under the knuckle.
> I prefer this 0,4 mm. It gives a nice feel. The landing of
> the key is not
> too hard and the regulation is trustworthy for a longer time.
> The tone is generous, strong enough and does not need a lot
> of needling.
> The 0,4 mm after-touch is standard.
>
> The soft landing is actually a weird one and unnecessary.
> It is a waste of time and energy as 'the work' has been
> done generously and
> safely, so why more safety and more wasting time?
> Because some (very few) pianists like this soft woolly
> feeling, that's why.
>
> In the last stages of regulation we compare the feel of
> combined let off and
> drop of the white keys with the sharps.
> It is best to use a finger of both hands when depressing
> the sharp, in order
> to feel the let off/drop (abnick) movement. Using both
> hands gives us a
> double feeling and makes us double careful and sensitive.
> The knicking movement of both whites and sharps should be
> EXACTLY the same.
> This may seem all too easy but, as a matter of fact, it is
> an art in itself.
> The more precise and sensitive we are, the finer the touch
> and the more
> subtle and rich the tone.
>
> The art and... sport in regulation lies in doing the whole
> process on sight
> and feel, with only the key depth block as an absolute fact.
>
> The greater art -and- sport in regulation lies in using the
> absolute minimum
> of energy/economy in movement.
> The whole process should be outlined in our mind beforehand
> and we must have
> hearing image of the tone to come.
> This last is most important during the process of voicing,
> but that is
> another matter.
>
> The most glorious moment comes afterwards, when we think we
> are finished.
> When we have done well, we should have a striking distance
> of at least 46 mm
> which is exactly what the striking distance tool shows.
> If we become more and more professional or have a fine talent for
> regulation, we often get more, or the most, out of it.
>
> I remember doing a hammer change on a nice Bechstein B.
> Bechstein grands are not the easiest ones when it comes to getting a
> generous striking distance.
> With this particular grand I reached 48-49 mm in the bass
> and 47 mm in the
> treble.
> It played man! and the tone was BIG!
>
>
> > Thank you so much for your wisdom and
> experience.......David Andersen
>
> Experience I have, but If I were allowed to make a wish...I
> would choose for
> 'wisdom'......
>
> My pleasure.... and
>
> friendly greetings to y'all
>
> from
>
> Antares,
>
> Amsterdam, Holland
>
> "where music is, no harm can be"
>
> visit my website at :  http://www.concertpianoservice.nl/
>
>
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