> From: "Isaac OLEG" <oleg-i@wanadoo.fr> > Reply-To: oleg-i@wanadoo.fr, Pianotech <pianotech@ptg.org> > Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 12:51:05 +0200 > To: "Pianotech" <pianotech@ptg.org> > Subject: RE: after touch and key dip > > To be hang in big letters (the sketch you made me!) > > Thanks Andre, terrific information. > > People yet have some thoughts about "Japanese" pianos , if only they > knew ... > > > With softer front punching I guess you have soft landing in any case, > is not it ? (I bet we don't regulate so the letoff happens in the > punching) Soft front punching is out. More firm front punching is in and gives a much better tone too. I always replace soft punching anyway with hard punching. friendly greetings from Antares, Amsterdam, Holland "where music is, no harm can be" visit my website at : http://www.concertpianoservice.nl/ > >> -----Message d'origine----- >> De : pianotech-bounces@ptg.org >> [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org]De la >> part de antares >> Envoye : mardi 22 octobre 2002 01:02 >> A : Pianotech >> Objet : after touch and key dip >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> From: David Andersen <bigda@gte.net> >>> Reply-To: Pianotech <pianotech@ptg.org> >>> Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 09:34:16 -0700 >>> To: "Pianotech" <pianotech@ptg.org> >>> Subject: Re: key dip, dip in..... >>> >>>> This means : a very sharp regulation with a dot on every i. >>>> I (almost) always succeed in making a delicious and safe >> regulation with >>>> enough after touch. >>> >>>> We have done exactly that on the STW B in Bergen during >> the seminar and it >>>> came out beautiful, so why not accept the approved (by >> almost all) standard >>>> and use the 10 mm as the reliable basis it really is? >>> >>> Fascinating. Please share your exact method for making >> the 10mm key dip. >>> Do you change key height >>> as well as front rail punchings? >> >> OK. Let us assume we would have to work on a Yamaha grand. >> >> First we check the way it plays and the sound it gives. >> That will give an >> initial impression. >> Than we take out the Yamaha key frame tool (key frame bolt >> regulator and the >> Yamaha key depth block (the brown one). >> I check the key dip the way I have learned it at Yamaha by >> pressing down the >> key with the pressure of about 250 grams (seams very normal >> and easy but >> took me along time to master) and I move the key depth >> block from left to >> right and back, to make sure that that, if the key is not strictly >> horizontal, both sides have the same outcome/result. >> >> We always have to change the key dip as the key bed moves >> along with the >> humidity, due to the change of season. >> >> So we measure the key height and it should be 64 (if it is >> not a CFIII-S). >> If the key dip is like 9.5 mm and the key height is 63+ it >> is an easy >> matter : we just raise the frame a little and make sure >> that afterwards the >> frame is connected tight enough on all pressure points with >> the key bed at >> the same time. >> Most (Yamaha) techs are more or less a little tolerant >> about the key height >> not being exactly 64 as it is also a matter of economy, that's >> understandable. >> If the key dip is 10 mm but the key height is 66 we have a problem. >> In that case we can not put on the blindfold and just pretend that >> everything is ok, so it means an extra hour of work by >> adjusting frame and >> paper punching. >> As a last check I bang on the piano to make sure I hear no >> rattle coming >> from a loose key frame. >> >> >>> Why is a "sharp regulation" so crucial >>> to proper key dip? What is your method of finely refining the >>> aftertouch, or "notch?" >> >> First of all, sharps seem a forgotten chapter with many >> technicians. They >> don't like to delve deep with their fingers or tweezers >> into/under the white >> keys...it is always a nuisance because it is extra work..... If it >> works...it works. >> Of course every sharp is an active member of the family so >> if we feel >> responsible enough we - must - do the job. >> The height of the sharps should be 12 mm and we should >> check them with a >> straight edge. >> If we make an exact 10 mm white key dip than that is our >> basis for the >> regulation. >> That is why the preliminary activities of adjusting of key >> height and key >> dip are so important : The pianist starts playing the >> instrument by putting >> his hands/fingers down on the keys, and that is where it all starts. >> The very first impression is the most important one : it >> causes trust, or >> mis-trust. >> >> When I did not know very much about grand regulation, I >> used to check the >> striking distance with this yellow Yamaha measuring tool. >>> From concert-Yamaha techs I learned how to go without this >> tool and play it >> by 'feel' and it was a very important learning moment for me. >> Actually it is amazingly simple and should be taught at all >> piano tech >> schools : >> >> We draw a curved line which represents the striking distance. >> It ends just before the string as let off takes place. >> Drop follows, and the up-going line goes down sharply for a >> very short >> while. >> At the end of this short line going down we draw a >> horizontal line : we have >> reached the bottom, which is the front punching. >> A perfect after-touch should be a movement of about 0.4 mm >> when we press the >> key - gently - down into the punching. >> Pianists often find this moment of after-touch the most >> important one and >> three after-touch possibilities should be available to them : >> 'Hard landing, neutral/medium landing, soft landing'. >> >> Hard landing means an after-touch of 0.1 mm - 0.2 mm >> Neutral/medium landing is 0.4 mm >> Soft landing is anything more than 0.4 mm but I would say >> no more than 1,5 >> mm. >> >> A very small after-touch of 0.1 mm - 0.2 mm (hard landing) >> is the most >> economical use of time and energy (which is what regulation >> is all about). >> Very little movement is lost, the tone is loudest and >> hitting the front >> punching feels very firm and maybe a little hard. >> >> A neutral/medium landing is safer, as there is literally >> more generous space >> available for the jack to move from under the knuckle. >> I prefer this 0,4 mm. It gives a nice feel. The landing of >> the key is not >> too hard and the regulation is trustworthy for a longer time. >> The tone is generous, strong enough and does not need a lot >> of needling. >> The 0,4 mm after-touch is standard. >> >> The soft landing is actually a weird one and unnecessary. >> It is a waste of time and energy as 'the work' has been >> done generously and >> safely, so why more safety and more wasting time? >> Because some (very few) pianists like this soft woolly >> feeling, that's why. >> >> In the last stages of regulation we compare the feel of >> combined let off and >> drop of the white keys with the sharps. >> It is best to use a finger of both hands when depressing >> the sharp, in order >> to feel the let off/drop (abnick) movement. Using both >> hands gives us a >> double feeling and makes us double careful and sensitive. >> The knicking movement of both whites and sharps should be >> EXACTLY the same. >> This may seem all too easy but, as a matter of fact, it is >> an art in itself. >> The more precise and sensitive we are, the finer the touch >> and the more >> subtle and rich the tone. >> >> The art and... sport in regulation lies in doing the whole >> process on sight >> and feel, with only the key depth block as an absolute fact. >> >> The greater art -and- sport in regulation lies in using the >> absolute minimum >> of energy/economy in movement. >> The whole process should be outlined in our mind beforehand >> and we must have >> hearing image of the tone to come. >> This last is most important during the process of voicing, >> but that is >> another matter. >> >> The most glorious moment comes afterwards, when we think we >> are finished. >> When we have done well, we should have a striking distance >> of at least 46 mm >> which is exactly what the striking distance tool shows. >> If we become more and more professional or have a fine talent for >> regulation, we often get more, or the most, out of it. >> >> I remember doing a hammer change on a nice Bechstein B. >> Bechstein grands are not the easiest ones when it comes to getting a >> generous striking distance. >> With this particular grand I reached 48-49 mm in the bass >> and 47 mm in the >> treble. >> It played man! and the tone was BIG! >> >> >>> Thank you so much for your wisdom and >> experience.......David Andersen >> >> Experience I have, but If I were allowed to make a wish...I >> would choose for >> 'wisdom'...... >> >> My pleasure.... and >> >> friendly greetings to y'all >> >> from >> >> Antares, >> >> Amsterdam, Holland >> >> "where music is, no harm can be" >> >> visit my website at : http://www.concertpianoservice.nl/ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pianotech list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives >> > > _______________________________________________ > pianotech list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives >
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