PRs climbing sharper (OT)

[Alan R. Barnard]

Interesting... well my measurements were watching moving LEDs on a guitar
tuner so maybe not as accurate as I led you to believe, but it DOES change
and then stabilizes, somewhat after I've played for awhile. Think I'll try
my piano ETD and get some accurate readings.

Truth is I've not been happy with the tuning on this guitar. It's not a
"cheap" guitar--not by price, anyway. It's a Yamaha GC-30. I paid over a
grand for it new (from Mel Bay, himself, interestingly enough) and I've seen
$1,000 as a used price on them ...

I've been playing/studying/cursing classical guitars since 1963 so have some
experience. Wish I still had the cedar-top Yairi-Alvarez I used to own.
Played a small Martin classical today and had played another some years ago,
they are very sweet little instruments--may try to buy this one.

Anyway, changing strings/brands/hardness/tension doesn't seem to matter. The
CG30 has one feature I'd not seen before: The bridge insert has about a 2mm
offset for the 3rd (G) string to make it that much longer in the speaking
length. I understand string physics and music theory but I don't understand
this since the fret spacing is the same for all strings. (?) The fret
spacing and string height are not like Wal-mart Christmas Specials.

An interesting question: It is very frustrating if the string harmonics
don't reasonable match the fret-produced tones, especially at the 2nd
partial (12th fret, octave) and hopefully at the 7th fret (3rd partial,
fifth) also. Yet to produce this, something must be compromised in fret
placement because of string inharmonicity. I don't know how much
inharmonicity there is in nylon strings, but there must be some. So what
have the luthiers done, here?

I've only tried tuning to beats on this one guitar and find it very
difficult, presumably because of inharmonicity and/or fret placement and/or
the 3rd string bridge offset. I'll have to experiment with "piano tuning"
other guitars.

As to your list: 1) Don't know exactly what you mean by "stability of the
instrument," 2) tuning pegs/gears are typical, high-end Japanese and seem
solid, 3) strings (see above), 4) String height is good, 4) Playing is
sometimes aggressive, if the music is aggressive (Villa-Lobos preludes, for
example) and gentle, easy if the music is such (e.g., Tarrega, Debussy) --
in other words, I play the range of the literature in appropriate style and
aggressiveness (at least I'd like to think I do!).

Got a Ramirez 1A to sell real cheap???

We've said this is OT but there ARE parallels to piano issues, here.

Thanks,

Alan Barnard
Playing Chinese Folk Music (Tiu Ning) in Salem, MO




----- Original Message -----
From: <kam544@gbronline.com>
To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 9:42 PM
Subject: Re: PRs climbing sharper (OT)


> >...my lil' old classical guitar and found that it will rise in
> >pitch 5 cents or more within 10 minutes of being tuned--apparently just
from
> >the heat and humidity of my body as I hold and play it...
> >Alan Barnard
>
> Just some comments on your observations:
>
> Having personally owned and repaired as necessary 25 guitars or more
> (classical, acoustic & solid body), if that guitar of yours changes 5
> cents or more within ten minutes by just holding and playing it, what
> you have is a guitar that won't hold a tune, whether it be the actual
> stability of the instrument, the ability to set the tuning pegs, the
> tuning pegs are worn out, the strings are too old, the height of the
> strings in relation to the frets on the neck is too high and/or your
> style of playing is extremely aggressive.
>
> At least, this is what I've discovered over the last 3 decades of
> experiencing guitars.
>
> Some guitars just haven't got what it takes to stay or sound in tune
> regardless of effort applied, economics being an obvious deciding
> factor. And then there are some that do stay and sound in tune for a
> very long time. What a joy it is to come across those.
>
> Keith McGavern
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