---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment On maandag, jun 2, 2003, at 11:03 Europe/Amsterdam, Dave Nereson wrote: > =A0 > =A0=A0=A0 What??=A0 The Steinways I've seen have always had an = egg-shaped=20 > hammer.=A0 Aren't we sposeta file trying to remove only one layer of=20= > felt, or enough to remove the string grooves, without changing the=20 > shape of the whole hammer (unless it's a grossly misshapen mess due to=20= > someone else's botch job)?=A0 Alright Dave, my explanation.......... Let me first state the following : I have only limited experience with=20= Steinways built in New York, so the Steinways I am talking about are=20 Hamburg Steinways and they ARE different. The Steinways built in Hamburg have Renner hammers with Wurzen felt. Those hammers are very round from the beginning and after first voicing=20= they are filed into a diamond shape, and much more 'diamondy' then you=20= (or I) would have imagined (it is actually frightening at first to see=20= how small a STW becomes after first filing. This filing process is pretty extreme, but it does give the STW's a=20 certain 'edge' and brilliance you won't get if you leave them=20 un-diamond-filed. > =A0=A0=A0 And why would a Bechstein change for the worse with a=20 > diamond-shaped hammer?=A0 Because certain instruments ask for a hammer shape that causes more or=20= less overtones. The Bechstein grand piano does not ask for a hammer which causes extra=20= brilliancy as the instrument itself already has a certain type of high=20= overtone sound. Give it more or too much, and you will make it an ugly=20= yelling monster with a pierced and shrill voice. > =A0 > =A0=A0=A0 At Yamaha's Little Red Schoolhouse, they explained that = Yamaha=20 > purposely shapes their hammers with more of a diamond- than an=20 > egg-shape.=A0 Sure, but look at the older type Yamaha's please and the hammers you=20 order for those instruments. You will notice that they are round and=20 pear shaped from the beginning. The hammers for Yamaha's started to change into a more diamondy shape=20 with the introduction of the CFIII-S and at the same the introduction=20 of the Wurzen felt, mind you. The Wurzen felt is a much different kind of felt than the felt Yamaha=20 uses on the regular - not hand made - models. It causes a different=20 tone and asks for a different treatment too. I can tell you this=20 because I had (private) lessons in Wurzen felt voicing in the Yamaha=20 CFIII-S department (within the factory), the Steinway factory in=20 Hamburg and the Bechstein factory in Berlin. (At one time I met the technical director of Yamaha in Hamburg - Herr=20 Professor Dokter L=FCdemann (ja ja) - and I proudlu told him about 'my=20= discovery' of the 'new' Wurzen felt, to which he sneered by telling me=20= that already some time ago he had made the same discovery and that=20 already they had proto-type CFIII-S actions with Wurzen hammers! Later=20= that year, while being in Hamburg, he summoned me to a secret place=20 where he showed me one of those 'Wurzen hammer' actions. At Yamaha they are now changing there hammers because they have also=20 changed their models. Those things go hand in hand. > =A0=A0=A0 Are we saying that if the felt is on the soft side = (Steinway,=20 > especially early ones, and even late ones, compared to Asian hammers),=20= > it will compress too much on a hard blow, flattening out and=20 > cancelling partials, giving a dull tone, so we should=A0file them to=20= > more of a diamond shape?=A0 How do you do that without cutting across=20= > layers of felt in the hammer?=A0 There is difference in felt making between felt makers. One of the=20 hammer makers pre-sands its hammers and makes its felt is much and much=20= more dense. This causes a brilliant tone from the beginning but after a=20= year or two the instruments quickly lose their erstwhile beauty because=20= the fibers in the hammers, which were much more massed up together in=20 the first place (and thereby lost a lot of their natural resilience)=20 become kind of hard thudding dead clonkers, to be replaced as soon as=20 possible. Those clonkers are dead lumps if felt, there is no more=20 'life' in them. I have experience with those clonkers for instance on Fazioli's and=20 Seilers. Especially one Fazioli concert grand (and initially a nice Seiler too)=20= I remember very well. It was a gift from, I think, a bank to a brand=20 new Theater somewhere here in Holland. The Fazioli became - extremely -=20= ugly within 3 years and was given away!, to be replaced by a brand new=20= Steinway D (although I wish that I could have heard/played one of Ron=20 Overs' grands as he is, according to me, one of the leading piano=20 makers in the world). The Wurzen felt is not sanded from the beginning and the highly=20 resilient felt layers stay intact, causing the same very lively tone=20 that the early Steinways had in earlier days. > =A0=A0=A0 And if the felt is dense (Asian and others) and already=20 > diamond-shaped (Yamaha and other Asian pianos), then it should have a=20= > richer tone because it does not flatten out and cancel partials?=A0 = But=20 > you said=A0YAM's change for the=A0worse with a diamond=A0shape.=A0=A0 = What do=20 > you mean, "change"?=A0 They already have the diamond shape....??? YAM's change for the worse if you re-shape their hammers as if they are=20= modern (Hamburg) STW's. Why? because it alters the tone in the wrong=20 way. The tone becomes overstrained and hyper, with the emphasis on the=20= higher partials which the Yamaha does not need as they are already=20 pretty brilliant. If we take the development of Yamaha's into=20 consideration we may notice that the early Yamaha's were shrill and=20 tinkly instruments. They clearly were accepted by the Japanese=20 consumers (at the time) but Yamaha had to adapt to a more 'Western=20 taste' of listening, which, over the years, resulted in a neutral kind=20= of Steinway clone, but without the 'boom' and richness of said STW.=20 (they are built completely different in the end and have gone their own=20= way) In my perception of, and experience with, piano sounds, the shape of a=20= hammer has to adapt to the characteristics of a soundboard. The=20 soundboard (and the strings), asks for a certain 'commotion', by in=20 fact a very specific kind of hammer strike, that will cause it to sound=20= in such a way that we as listeners will like and thus approve of. A=20 Bechstein with a sharp protruding diamond shape hammers will definitely=20= sound different than with a more rounded off, egg shaped, hammer. A STW=20= with a Bechstein hammer will sound a little dull, without the specific=20= STW brilliance and color gradation we expect from it. A B=F6sendorfer=20 with a STW hammer will 'speak too loud' and thereby lose its romantic=20 harmonics. A Fazioli would definitely be a more interesting instrument, musically=20= speaking, with Wurzen hammers. One of the much heard complaints about=20 Fazioli's is that they sound so very loud and too uniform, without any=20= change of 'color', which makes especially Bechsteins and B=F6sendorfers=20= so attractive and magically divers. Instead, the Fazioli maker wishes for his instruments to SOUND and=20 SOUND, as it were to prove that a Fazioli has unlimited power, just=20 like, or even more, than a Steinway. A Yamaha CFIII-S basically does not give that same avalanche of=20 loudness although they may 'thunder' (the legendary S. Richter for=20 instance on a unique instrument built for him only. They have become=20 more subtle because they have, just like the others, a long history of=20= piano making behind them and an adapted taste. That's exactly why a YAM=20= CFIII-S 'can be' magnificent, masterly, and truly satisfying because=20 the instrument is balanced and rightly developed. They brought together=20= the right materials and they have learned through experience how to=20 treat those materials. I am more than convinced that Fazioli eventually will find its true=20 course. I am definitely not saying that Fazioli is a mediocre=20 instrument, on the contrary! They have, I think, a great deal of=20 possibilities and technically speaking they are superb. It is just a=20 matter of more time. Some Asian piano makers (I am not talking about Yamaha and Kawai) also=20= have not found their true course. The Koreans are rapidly developing=20 ways to flood the World with even more low cost pianos. I was there in=20= the Samick factories in Incheon and Djakarta and I was amazed by the=20 speed and the quantities of instruments leaving the factory(great=20 guitars too). They basically have good material (Wurzen hammers from=20 Renner, soundboards from Italy, Keyboards from Germany), but they still=20= have to find a stable course. Maybe Bechstein (50% take over) will be=20 of great influence? The Chinese make all the stuff in the World. They=20 make literally everything and they make it in a very inexpensive way. I=20= have seen, and worked on, several Chinese 'Perzina' uprights. They amazed me by their already reasonable quality but they still have=20= a long time to go, unless they can buy the right people for a lot of=20 dollares to make very fast competitive changes. Anyway....my little story turned out a little longer than expected. Hopefully it made any sense at all? 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