a violonist trained ear (was tuning for violinist)]

[Isaac OLEG]

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Hello,

A common idea is that higher or larger stretch, may be more musically
forgiving that what tend to follow the natural justness of the instrument.

IMHO, this is because the extra stretch is adding a new temperament or
justness method, and that  fraud the ear, that instinctively tend to agree
with the pitches as being good.

A concert tuners told me once that if a note is too low it will be more
easily noticed that if it is too high.

Adding that to the acoustic effect of the room, that ask for higher treble,
and it is understandable that highly stretched tunings are rarely
problematic.

What I've find is that they are less good for all close harmony music, and I
like to avoid the kind of "straightness" that I feel is induced with high
stretch.

But seems evident to me that it is easier to open the tuning a lot,
depending of the room and the instrument, as we listen for a tone that is
reflected by the room's acoustic.

Violinist like to play the high treble really high, but when they play with
the piano they correct themselves, because they understand the features of
the instrument.

That is easier for them to correct their justness than for the piano tuner
to try to meet the violin high treble I think.

Best regards.

Isaac OLEG


-----Message d'origine-----
De : pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org]De la part
de hubert liverman
Envoyé : lundi 2 août 2004 22:44
À : Pianotech
Objet : Re: Re: a violonist trained ear (was tuning for violonist)]



  I was trained as a bass trombonist.I attended Auburn University,Manhattan
School of Music and Columbia University. I have played everything from
Symphony to Cercus. That is the lot of a free lance musician.Trombonists
need to play 'pure' 3rds,4ths 5ths,unisons,and octaves. Then we adjust it on
the fly, dependant on the key, type of ensemble, era, and style of music
being performed. The Beethoven Three Equali is an example. Things get
tougher, as in Bhrams 1'st Symphony (in C major) when we sit around for 35
minutes or so and come in pianissimo on a chorale in A major. It is
difficult for the 2nd trombone to play the 3rd of the chord in tune on that
very exposed entrance. When you add a piano to the mix, as in a piano
Concerto, the strech factor comes into play and we must learn to adjust.
Especially the lower parts, we have to think low to what we hear natrually
(?). I have known many excellent musicians of all ilk who stumble over the
"comma", and confuse themselves. Jazz and commercial musicians are more
forgiving than some of the classical types in regards to Piano verses the
rest of the "Band".  This discussion has been going on for 2500 some odd
years and will continue forever.

  Hubert Liverman
  Opelika, AL




  Interesting enough, slide trombone players tend to like and favor pure
thirds when performing in trombone ensembles. Beethoven's trombone trio, one
of his first compositions, performed at his funeral, gives a very nice
exemple of this. It requires something like "just intonation", pure thirds
and pure fifths, so that the players have to adapt and correct their pitch
constantly, depending on the harmonic function of the interval they play.
When performed by great trombone players, it sounds magnificent.  Anybody
ever got complaints about the beating major 3rds on a trombone player's
piano ?  :-)

  Of course this is my experience as a music-loving amateur, and deductions
I make from my not-very-exhaustive knowledge of those instruments and the
temperament theory. Any thoughts ?

  Jean Debefve,
  Belgium

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