> Fer cryin out loud . . . . bible . . . scripture . . . Am I on the wrong > list . . .?? > People . . .yes it is a free country, but PLEASE take your philosophy to > your own private place . . Sorry, Jim, but I know too many people who have died from this sort of nonsense. It's serious, and it's germane. I've removed the "OT" from the subject line, because I think this discussion is very much ON topic. Please take note that I appreciate and gratefully acknowledge the comments from those people who have spoken up in support of Rob's client. This email is NOT directed to them. It's directed to those who feel this is not a serious issue and to those who are waving the finger of self-righteous pseudomorality at her and those like her. Rob thinks this is an amusing story and apparently that it would be OK to strike a transsexual with a tuning hammer. Dean's only observation is that it is indeed a bit much to expect Rob to treat his client like a woman, when in fact "it" (Rob's term) is a man. And we must strive to extend the utmost courtesy to this man? (Start by acknowledging that she is a woman.) Now John has said we shouldn't judge the transsexual for the (heavily implied) immoral choices (he) has made, yet John doesn't speak of the horrific intent of the man with the tuning hammer. There is something very, very wrong here, and if *everyone* on this list can't come to realize that, then there's still a big problem. It's a big problem that could, some day, result in another assualt/rape and/or murder. All you people are going into other people's homes. You had all better damned well get it straight how to treat the customer. It most certainly shouldn't be with insults and violence. Sure, have your personal beliefs, whatever they may be. Revel in them. But when you enter the client's home, leave your judgment, your bias, your puritanical ideology, your insecurities, and any violent urges behind. If you care more about your client's personal life than about the piano you are hired to service, then please do everyone a favor, and find another profession! I'll get right to the point: Transgender Customer Relations 101 for the Religion Impaired: (1) It isn't in the Bible. Period. Look, but you won't find. (2) Deut 22:5, the only passage that even appears superficially to apply to transsexualism, says that a man shouldn't wear a woman's clothing or vice versa. (Note that this was not a punishable offense, as compared to lots of other stuff, punishable by various dreadful forms of torture/execution.) Let's think about this one: Male to female transsexuals are part male and part female, biologically speaking. The female part is on the inside -- their brains. (Please don't argue this with me. I'm a neurobiologist, and I know a thing or two about this issue.) So what are they, male or female? Which clothing should they wear, as though this were really so damned important an issue? Well, the medical, psychological, and scientific communities all feel that the most important determinant of our gender is what's in our heads, which should come as little surprise to those of us who don't think with our crotches. In other words, Rob's client is female in the ways that matter most. Given this, Deut 22:5 says that the male-to-female transsexual shouldn't wear male clothing (Duh!), and therefore Rob's client was appropriately attired. Of course if her female attire didn't have four tassels or was made of a cotton/polyester blend, that *would* be a sin! (3) John, there are no passages relating to transsexualism in the same way that passages on murder are interpreted by many to apply to issues like abortion. Whether you read the scripture to understand the spirit of what it says, or whether you read it fundamentalist-style, looking for quotes to be taken out of context to be used against people, there's still nothing. Read what was actually said about eunuchs, John. The term and the issue both existed back then. Read. Enlighten yourself. Any version of the Bible -- doesn't matter. (4) Transgendered people were once respected members of society, but the puritanical movement changed that. Two millenia ago, long before the blight of the puritan movement, transgendered people (f.k.a. "eunuchs") were high officials, clerics, and confidants of kings. Jesus didn't really have much to say about them, one way or the other, even when he was directly questioned about them, so this was hardly an oversight in the Bible. I suspect it was really a pretty boring issue in that day, as it really should be in modern times. John, go ahead and look for scripture that says transsexualism (or being a "eunuch") is wrong. If you find it, please post it here. Otherwise, let's all just assume it's not there, 'cuz it isn't. If it's really important to you, you can search other religious texts, but I don't think you'll find it there either. Also go to your conservative clerics for guidance/ammunition. However, understand that even *Pat Robertson*, the most conservative cleric I know, the voice of the religious right, has declared on national television that there is nothing wrong with transsexualism, in just so many words -- that there is nothing wrong with transitioning, that there is nothing wrong with having reassignment surgery, etc., etc. He has never reversed this position, so far as I am aware. I think that must have been his unavoidable conclusion, after the frustrating experience of scouring the Bible for scripture to condemn the transgender community. Finally, John, Dean, et al., if you're going to use *Christianity against someone, at least read the "user's manual" first. I wouldn't think it a good idea for someone to use a gun without knowing something about it. The same goes for *Christianity. Both are dangerous weapons in the wrong hands. Again, I apologize to the list for the argumentative nature of this post, but I take issue that this is somehow merely a "philosophical" issue. I will boldly assert that it is far more important to discuss on this list than any piano, even a Fazoli. It has to do with your professional conduct and the danger you could present to your clientele. Please understand that there's real, human blood spilled over this issue on a weekly basis. I know, because I've known some of the fallen people, and I've personally compiled the reports on their murders and the murders of (and other hate crimes against) countless others -- people with friends, with family, with cats, dogs, and hamsters. People with deep philosophical issues. People who once told funny jokes and gave people reassuring hugs. People who worked hard to improve their communities. Musicians, engineers, doctors, scientists. People who mowed their lawns and paid their taxes. People who worried about how to put food on the table and keep a roof over their head. People who wondered when they would be next. People who would daily ask God why they were being punished so mercilessly by all you good *Christian folk (or at least the 5% of you). People who are dearly missed by those they left behind. Four decades and counting, Sarah *By "Christianity," I'm really referring to "parachristianity," characterized by imaginary scripture and "literal," out of context interpretations. I hope the true Christians understand my intent and do not take offense. PS Allen, thanks for the thoughtful posting. Only one correction: GLBT people *do* reproduce, albeit not as much as the straight population. I have children myself. But I agree with your main point. Thanks.
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