Pinning on new flanges:a proposed experiment

[Sarah Fox]

Hi Ric,

> Holy Chrasimus Sarah... :)... you do let these things get to be
> gargantuan in length.....

<shrug>  ;-)

I think we're not connecting because we have both become derailed into a
split in terminology.

But this passage makes me think we're really talking about the same thing:

> Like I say... sounds good on paper... but since pianists actually DO
> exert said control, something must be wrong with your scenario.  I would
> submit that your whole perspective of piano playing being simply
> reactive is in error.  Pianist exert control willfully... with purpose.
> They go into a key stroke knowing what they are after.

And indeed that's what I'm trying to say.  Pianists go *in* to each key
stoke with the *anticipation* of exactly what the note is supposed to be.
I'm not saying there's no control.  I'm saying that the control is in the
execution of the motor pattern itself, and it is a very mechanical control
with no active feedback.  It's the execution of a cerebellar motor program.
It's every bit as "mindless" as the firing of a PianoDisk servo.  It takes
training/learning, apparently just like a PianoDisk system.

Here's a simple experiment for you, that should establish the level of
feedback pianists actually have.  You can do this one yourself, Ric.  Stick
a wooden block, atop an "A" key, raising the height by perhaps 1/4".  Now
blindfold a pianist, and have him play a 2-octave C maj scale, including the
aberrant key in the 2nd octave.  If pianists indeed have the level of
control that folks on this list are suggesting, the pianist should be able
to negotiate the aberrant key height quite well.  If there's no active
feedback, however, (what I'm suggesting, and what I *think* you might be
suggesting too???), I think the pianist should consistently "whonk" that "A"
key, because it doesn't work with the existing motor program.  Maybe the
most exceptional pianists will be able to negotiate it just fine.  Dunno.

Different variations:  Fast vs. slow, pp vs. mp vs. f.  Also, try telling
the pianist ahead of time that one of the keys will be "weird" in some way.
Or tell him/her that one of the keys will be raised.  Or don't tell him/her
anything.    Give it a try, and tell me what you find!  You have lots more
students available than I do.  (I'm the only one I know in my immediate
circle who can play the piano.)

Once you've obtained your results, I think you'll have a pretty good picture
of the conditions under which a pianist can correct for errors in piano key
movement while the key is in motion.  Those would be the same conditions
under which friction could potentially be beneficial for control.

In closing...  You wrote

> Reflex... reaction.... re-- re--- re----   Thats not what pianist touch
> control is about.
>
> What the pianist does... he/she does (hopefully) on purpose.

Agreed, with the exception of the occasional few notes that are really
touchy and require some sort of active feedback to execute them well.

>  Lowered
> friction simply (and by your own analysis as well) makes it increasingly
> difficult to accomplish what they attempt.  Any error... misjudgement...
> whathaveyou gets <<enhanced>> by the very thing you self show becomes
> more and more impossible to react to.

Not agreed.  Your arguments are based on the idea that a low friction action
moves faster and less predictably (?!?) than a high friction action.  In
fact the same key movement speed results in the same hammer hammer velocity,
which results in the same energy imparted to the strings, which results in
the same loudness of note -- give or take, ignoring voicing sorts of issues.
The only difference is that the lower friction action moves under less
force.  Well, that, and perhaps that someone with really jerky movements
would be prone to flinging the hammers prematurely, but wouldn't the skilled
pianist have learned not to make jerky movements?  There is certainly no
reason to believe that either type of action would be more or less
consistent than the other in its response, unless there's something you're
not telling me.

You already know my preferences -- low-ish friction and a heavy-ish hammers.
So in my own case, my preferred method of control is through hammer inertia.
If I had a low friction action with very light hammers, THEN I might feel I
had no control.  Perhaps this is the same sort of phenomenon, just
approached through a different basket of forces.  Perhaps???  :-)

Peace,
Sarah

PS You have a lot of "control" when ice-scating on concrete, but is that
what ice scating is about?  ;-)