Pinning on new flanges:a proposed experiment

[Richard Brekne]

Sarah Fox wrote:

>
>And indeed that's what I'm trying to say.  Pianists go *in* to each key
>stoke with the *anticipation* of exactly what the note is supposed to be.
>I'm not saying there's no control.  I'm saying that the control is in the
>execution of the motor pattern itself, and it is a very mechanical control
>with no active feedback.  It's the execution of a cerebellar motor program.
>It's every bit as "mindless" as the firing of a PianoDisk servo.  It takes
>training/learning, apparently just like a PianoDisk system.
>  
>

But Sarah.... if you accept that then you are forced to also accept that 
lowering friction makes it more difficult for that  <<execution of the 
motor pattern itself>> to yeild as predictable result as before...... by 
your own words no less.  And if that is not a reduction in control I 
dont know what is... That is control reduction per definition !

Heres a simple experiment back for you.  Get your self one of those 
Ab-blasters... and sit on it and try and balance yourself without useing 
the hand holds.. Good luck. Now add a bit of friction to that swivel you 
are sitting on. 

Your whole argumentation ends up relying on the position that there is 
no significan control element to begin with (except on a ppp level of 
play you claim happens less then a promile of a percentage of the time), 
so lessened friction does not have any real effect on that control. 

And  Sarah... when you start going so far as to reduce human touch to a 
<<program>> ala anything that we can get a <<mindless>> robot to do... 
then I am afraid you loose me.  You are of course free to operate on 
that assumption.  But I deal with human players...and it just isnt that 
simple... no matter what your physics tell you.

But by all means... take your pianodisk... regulate the action as 
perfectly as you can.... regulate the pianodisk system as perfectly as 
you can... and let it play the same song both ways.... been there done 
that.

>Here's a simple experiment for you, that should establish the level of
>feedback pianists actually have.  You can do this one yourself, Ric.  Stick
>a wooden block, atop an "A" key, raising the height by perhaps 1/4".  Now
>blindfold a pianist, and have him play a 2-octave C maj scale, including the
>aberrant key in the 2nd octave.  If pianists indeed have the level of
>control that folks on this list are suggesting, the pianist should be able
>to negotiate the aberrant key height quite well.  If there's no active
>feedback, however, (what I'm suggesting, and what I *think* you might be
>suggesting too???), I think the pianist should consistently "whonk" that "A"
>key, because it doesn't work with the existing motor program.  Maybe the
>most exceptional pianists will be able to negotiate it just fine.  Dunno.
>  
>
I can already tell you that the blindfolded pianist would stumble on the 
key, and just as likely would not get it to play at all as anything 
else.  Thats a monsterous degree of unexpectedness you are contriving.  
But one time through and the pianist would immediatly make the adjustment.

You still dont get it... lowering friction simply increases the chance 
and magnitude of error... as it must.

>
>PS You have a lot of "control" when ice-scating on concrete, but is that
>what ice scating is about?  ;-)
>  
>

Sigh... no and neither is skating on ice that is so slippery you cant  
make a turn or even stop.

We are talking about an optimum degree of friction.  Mixing physics in 
to justify a preference as being <<correct>> or <<better>> when all the 
assembled evidence as to user preference refutes this just doesnt make 
it... especially when said physics overlooks an essential element of 
what control is to begin with. 

As I said to Ryan... nobody will argue that tastes will vary.. and by 
all means choose whatever you think feels best.  Just dont try to tell 
me that pianists dont have any degree of control that figures into why 
they by and large choose a bit more friction then you are calling for, 
and pleeassse... dont try and use science to reduce the human motorial 
functions to mere programs that any old robot could easily deal with.

Cheers
RicB

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