Piano Finder Fee

[Andrew Olson]

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Merry Christmas All!

I am a technician "in training" up here in Door County, Wisconsin.  It is a
white and COLD Christmas.  I'm in an apprenticeship with Peter Nehlsen, RPT
of Washington Island.  I have many stories and experiences from my many
trips to the Island to learn in his shop.

I am learning so much in my apprenticeship and it is so valuable to be a
part of this listserv.  Thank you all for sharing your knowledge and
experience on so many different topics.  Hopefully I'll be able to add
something from my experience in the future.  Until then, I appreciate all of
you!  Thank you!

On a side note-- David, "Spif" is a common term used in the sales world.
When I used to be a mortgage broker, we would often get a "spif" from
realtors for referring business.  Or we might get a "spif" from the company
for exemplary performance.  At our business, it was an acronym for "Special
Performance Incentive Fund (or Fee)."  I don't know how this would fit in
with the referral of the sale of a piano...but it's interesting to note
parallels from the different sales worlds.

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to you ALL!

Sincerely,

Andrew Olson
Sturgeon Bay, Wisconsin

Birch Creek Music Performance Center, Egg Harbor, Wisconsin
  -----Original Message-----
  From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org]On
Behalf Of David Love
  Sent: Friday, December 24, 2004 11:53 AM
  To: 'Pianotech'
  Subject: RE: Piano Finder Fee


  On the surface that seems a bit harsh.  Having a finder's fee which is
split between buyer and seller would not be an unusual arrangement and would
defer costs slightly from each party.  As long as there wasn't a conflict of
interest driving the sale.  I obviously don't know the specifics surrounding
the deal but I certainly see guild members doing things that seem less
ethical-maybe just more incompetent-than that and are members in good
standing.  It appears that the tech simply asked for a fee after the fact.
No harm in asking.  If the dealer wanted to give a "spiff" (never heard that
word before), then that's up to the dealer, it seems to me.  I wouldn't do
it that way myself, but barring him from membership in the guild?  Maybe a
discussion of what is considered ethical conduct in the guild would have
been more appropriate.



  More typically, a "finders" fee is paid by the customer who wishes to
employ your services and is separate from a "commission" paid by the seller.
Finder's fees or commissions can either be a flat fee or a percentage of the
sale.  Commissions from the seller vary from dealer to dealer and party to
party and, like all such fees, are best negotiated in advance.  This is
separate yet from a fee for inspection in which you are hired to go inspect
a piano and might amount to a fee similar to a service call.  Commissions
for independent techs (different from a commission if you are a dealer
taking in a piano on consignment) typically range between 3% and 15%
probably averaging around 10%.



  David Love
  davidlovepianos@comcast.net

  -----Original Message-----
  From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On
Behalf Of Paul McCloud
  Sent: Friday, December 24, 2004 7:46 AM
  To: Pianotech
  Subject: Re: Piano Finder Fee



  A few years ago, I had invited a technician to join the local Guild
chapter.  The following incident caused him to be barred from entrance into
the Guild.

  The tech was hired to look at a S&S grand at our store.  We don't sell new
Steinways, but had several used ones for sale.  The customer didn't like any
of them, so they went to the Steinway dealer to look at new ones.  He was
asked to evaluate one of the pianos there.  Without removing the action, he
looked it over and declared it suitable for his customer.  The customer paid
him for his services.  Later, he approached the salesperson and asked if
there might be some spiff for bringing in his customer.  His reasoning was
that our store (not Steinway franchise dealer) was going to give him one, so
would they offer him one as well?  It wasn't arm twisting, but he did get a
spiff from the dealer.  Another tech (Guild member) was present for the sale
at the dealer.  When he found that this tech had received pay from both
dealer and customer, he used his influence to have this tech barred from
membership.

  Paul McCloud

  San Diego





    ----- Original Message -----

    From: Sarah Fox

    To: Pianotech

    Sent: 12/24/2004 7:29:21 AM

    Subject: Re: Piano Finder Fee



    Hi Terry,



    My Wissner was located through a third party who supposedly wanted a 10%
finder's fee.  It turns out that the "real" fee he was trying to swing for
himself (by lying to both buyer and seller) was much, much higher --
something like 50% over the seller's price.  (In the end, the deal didn't
happen the way he had hoped.)  Anyway, 10% was considered fair in NYC for a
deal in which the finder didn't really have to do any more than to put two
parties in contact.  If you are doing other things for the buyer (e.g.
evaluating the pianos), then I would think you should ask more.  Perhaps you
could charge a fee per piano that you evaluate, plus 10% of the sale?



    Peace,

    Sarah



      ----- Original Message -----

      From: Terry

      To: pianotech@ptg.org

      Sent: Friday, December 24, 2004 8:15 AM

      Subject: Piano Finder Fee



      I have been asked by a client of mine to find a good used piano for
their daughter. I am always happy to work with folks to get rid of the junk
and get a nice piano. The guy is willing to spend up to the $3K to $4K range
(maybe a nice used Yamy upright). He appears to be the type of guy that
simply doesn't have the time to do it himself, but wants it to happen. He
said "find me a nice piano and I'll take care of you".



      We didn't talk about any specifics.



      So it seems apparent to me that he is willing to pay a finder's fee if
I find him a nice piano. I am aware that some dealers will sell a piano for
a private owner on consignment. I don't know what percentage is typical. I
sold two bicycles at two different stores for a 25% consignment fee. I have
a third at another store that will charge a 15% consignment fee. What kind
of consignment fees do stores charge for a piano sold on consignment. Is
that any basis for a finder's fee?



      Has anyone done this sort of thing for a third party? How did it work.
What were the financial arrangements?



      Thanks.



      Terry Farrell

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