This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment What type of room humidifier are you using? How many watts does it use? = I think the H2 humidistats are rated up to 600 watts. I have ran a Sears = basement-type dehumidifier off a humidistat in the past. That would = solve your troubles for when you travel. Terry Farrell ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Andrew & Rebeca Anderson=20 To: Pianotech=20 Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 10:34 AM Subject: Re: Where did the RH Go My wife and I regulate humidity (in winter) through the whole house = with two humidifiers and a gauge on a bookshelf by the piano. This = requires some attentiveness, and is affected by outdoor weather. The = problem comes when we travel. We were away over the holidays for two = weeks and when we returned the humidity was in the high single digits. = The piano sounded horrible. We got humidity up in a few days and in two = weeks I retuned. We have developed a rather low-tolerance for = out-of-tune. =20 The issue is practicality. Most customers will not go through the = trouble of monitering RH and refilling, turning on/off their humidifiers = on a daily basis. Once a piano is up to humidity, the DC will usually = last a week often more, it only has a small environment to keep-up. The = humidity migrates through the wood, even in a grand piano pin torque is = affected (closed lids do help in extreme environments). Buying a room = humidifier that has a remote-control humidistat will cost more than a DC = system, although it would benefit all the wooden furniture too. I have = discussed this with clients and some have chosen to get a cheap = hardware-store hygrometer and start running a room humidifier. They = last about halfway to the next tuning and then want a DC system or = believe they can tolerate the effects on the piano. Andrew Anderson Las Cruces, NM At 06:40 AM 1/13/2004 -0500, you wrote: I don't think anyone is questioning the effects of RH changes on the = tuning of a piano. =20 I'm with Sarah and feel that proper full environment humidity = control is the best way to go - better than a full DC installation. =20 I think where the arguement comes in is the fact that probably 99% = of full environment humidity control systems are improperly designed, = poorly functioning, turned off and windows opened up, turned off over = the holidays and summer, etc., etc.=20 =20 But this does not change the fact that if one installs a proper full = environment humidity control system that holds the RH constant within a = few percent, it will be more effective than a full DC. =20 And don't forget that even if you hard-wire the DC system into the = wall, who is ever going to notice that the circuit breaker tripped 15 = months ago and the piano hasn't had any humidity control since that = time? =20 In my shop I have a Sears basement-type dehumidifier. It keeps the = shop right at 45% RH (within a percent or two). I never varies. How in = the world is a DC unit on a piano in my shop going to work better, or do = anything at all besides vapor, dry, vapor, dry, vapor, dry, etc., etc.? =20 So I guess the bottom line is that if one is willing to set up a = proper full environment humidity control system that holds the RH = constant within a few percent, that is the best way to go. From a = practical standpoint, knowing that 90-some% of full environment humidity = control systems are not going to be real effective, the full DC-type = system is the way to go (they DO work quite well). And as someone = pointed out, from a practical standpoint a full DC-type system in a = piano which is in an environment modified by a full environment humidity = control systems is the best around.=20 =20 Flame Suite Tighly Zipped, =20 Terry Farrell =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "DIANE HOFSTETTER" <dianepianotuner@msn.com> To: <pianotech@ptg.org> Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2004 2:51 AM Subject: Re: Where did the RH Go > Sarah, >=20 > For fourteen years now my partner and I have been measuring and = graphing the=20 > tuning on every piano immediately before we tune it. We also = record the=20 > relative humidity and temperature most of the time, whether it has = a=20 > Damppchaser installation or not, and if it is functioning = correctly. >=20 > Then when we next tune the piano and record all the data again, we = have a=20 > way of understanding how to service the piano to make the tuning = as stable=20 > as possible. >=20 > Over the years I have had fun with a variety of experiments. One = day I=20 > arrived to tune a piano in a room that is routinely kept unheated = with no=20 > climate control in the piano. The maintenance people had just = turned on the=20 > heat before I arrived and a stream of warm area was shooting out = of the=20 > register about ten feet away. >=20 > I was dismayed; the heat should have been turned on hours before. = I knew=20 > the tuning could not be reliable. I went ahead and graphed the = tuning. As=20 > soon as I finished that graph, I remeasured the tuning and graphed = it again.=20 > Then I remeasured and regraphed, and then once again. I ended = up with a=20 > graph showing four distinctly separate lines of the tuning as it = changed=20 > with the relative humidity and temperature for each line carefully = recorded. >=20 > There is no question in my mind that changes in relative humidity = affect the=20 > tuning dramatically and that a Damppchaser system does an = excellent job of=20 > helping control that. I have numerous graphs to show it does. >=20 > Diane >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Diane Hofstetter >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > >From: "Sarah Fox" <sarah@gendernet.org> > >Reply-To: Pianotech <pianotech@ptg.org> > >To: "Pianotech" <pianotech@ptg.org> > >Subject: Re: Where did the RH Go > >Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 21:48:30 -0500 > > > >Hi Don, > > > > > I did not say your system didn't work. What I said was a DC = system would > > > work even better. > > > >Perhaps. Perhaps not. I don't mean to be argumentative on this = point. =20 > >I'm > >really asking a question here: Have you (or has anyone else) = done > >measurements with a good, accurate hygrometer on a complete DC = grand > >installation, during dry ambient conditions, showing that = humidity is=20 > >indeed > >evenly distributed all over the soundboard, both under and on = top, and in > >the action cavity? Also, have the same measurements been done = inside the > >piano with a closed lid and inside the action cavity during = predominantly > >dehumidifying periods? In other words, are DC's claims fully=20 > >substantiated, > >as determined empirically with a hygrometer? I've heard lots of = claims > >regarding stability of pitch. That's all well and good, of = course. > >However, how well does the DC system regulate humidity (in = contrast to > >pitch)? > > > > > I do recommend room type humdifiers as well--but only to = "assist" a DC > > > unit. If it is a choice of one or the other the DC provides = much better > > > year round control than is generally possible with a room = type. There=20 > >are > > > exceptions, but they are very rare. > > > >This sounds like a reasonable approach. > > > > > Do you have measurements for the summer time? Where I am I = have=20 > >documented > > > as low as 4% and as high as 84%. > > > >Without humidification, humidity levels inside my house vary from = 27% in=20 > >the > >winter to 67% in the late fall. I have forced heat and = refrigerated A/C, > >BTW. I suspect humidity levels are far different in other parts = of the > >state. I'm in Central Ohio. In the lake areas, humidity is = undoubtedly > >much higher during moderate weather. Also, I have no idea what = humidity > >levels occur in other people's homes here in Columbus. (I don't = service > >their pianos. <grin>) > > > > > I would love to have a controller for a DC type system that = had much > > > narrower limits. I know, for example, that rare bird = hatcheries have=20 > >units > > > that are calibrated to 1/10 of one percent humidity that power = an > > > "electronic" fan (read no blades--some sort of vibrating = plate) combined > > > with an ultrasonic humidifer. I'd love to get my pinkies on = one! > > > >Well, I can't boast 0.1% limits with my system (WOW!!), but I do = quite a=20 > >bit > >better than the specs DC boasts. I did a 100% non-DC-brand = installation on > >my concert grand, using a GE humidistat that cycles the system = adjustably > >between 40 - 44% (or occasionally as widely as 39 - 45%) when the = ambient=20 > >RH > >is in the upper 40's. The installation is fairly recent, so I = haven't yet > >been able to observe its behavior at higher humidity levels. = I'll give you > >an update in the spring if you're interested. > > > >Peace, > >Sarah > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >pianotech list info: = https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives >=20 > _________________________________________________________________ > Scope out the new MSN Plus Internet Software - optimizes dial-up = to the max!=20 > http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=3Den-us&page=3Dbyoa/plus&ST=3D1 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > pianotech list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives > ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://www.moypiano.com/ptg/pianotech.php/attachments/42/d5/4d/2f/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment--
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