Tuning styles with octaves

[Bec and John]

Hi,

Thanks everyone for your responses! It is interesting to hear other 
people's experiences and approaches.

I can't say I experience what Terry said, maybe I'm misunderstanding.

I am a pianist and studied tuning with a local RTP so I could tune for 
myself - I was tired of playing/practising on off-tune pianos! I never 
really had the opportunity to see what I thought of stretched vs. 
non-beatless octaves before my ear was more "educated" to such things. 
However, I can say now that a beatless octave in the high treble or low 
bass doesn't sound flat or sharp to me - quite the opposite, 
particularly in the low bass.

- John


> The question is what do you mean by perfectly?  If you have a measuring
> device that allows for direct measurement, such as a SAT III, tune an
> octave pure at the 4:2 level, then measure the same two notes at the 
> 6:3
> level, or the 8:4 level.  You will find that not all of the coincident
> partials will be "perfectly" tuned.  In other words, there is no such
> things as perfectlly tuned octave.  How clean the octaves sound is 
> another
> matter and I admit to a preference for cleaner sounding octaves such 
> that
> when you play A2, A3, A4, A5 together, for example, you don't hear 
> much of
> a roll unless you linger there for awhile.  Still, if measured at 
> certain
> partials, the octaves would measure at less than perfect.  The piano
> generally tells you (if you listen, of course) where it wants to be and
> even if you are using an ETD, it is important to determine by ear just 
> what
> kind of octaves will work best for a particular piano, that is, how 
> much
> stretch is appropriate.
>
> David Love

<and>

> John, I'd wager you are accustomed to listening only to a subset of the
> partials that are being generated by the octaves. There is no perfect 
> octave
> tuning - one must choose which partials one will use. For example, C1 
> and C2
> have common partials at C2, C3, G3, C4, E4, G4, C5 etc. and it is not
> possible, as far as I know, for any two of these partials to both be 
> tuned
> perfectly in the octave. If you are listening to the C2 partial, you 
> are
> tuning 2:1 octaves, if you are listening to C3 you are setting 4:2 
> octaves,
> G3 - 6:3 octaves, C4 - 8:2 octaves (unlikely) etc.
> It would be good for you to identify which octave type you prefer by 
> finding
> out which tests validate the octaves you prefer.

<and>

> The high treble and low bass octaves, when tuned beatless or nearly 
> beatless, STILL have  a degree of  "natural" stretch. The ear "hears" 
> these areas as flat and sharp respectavely if NOT somehwhat stretched, 
> especially when arpeggios are played.
>
> Terry Peterson