---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment In > > >Ric wrote Lacquer DOES ruin a hammer from the perspective of any > future needling-up. But of course it does not <<ruin>> a hammer from > some other perspective. > > >>*Yeah but Ric* if lacquer ruins a hammer then it does sound like > condemnation. A lacquered hammer done properly so it so the tone opens > up with playing time is a different way of getting the tone up. >>It ruins the style hammers you"re using perhaps but Ruin implies to make useless. I have a lot of lacquerd hammers out there with lacquer in them sounding just grand. None of these hammers are made in the same fashion as the ones you are accustomed to. I'm just trying to make the distinction. . Read again Dale. I pointed out that from the very specific perspective of being able to needle up a hammer... lacquer ruins a hammer. This is true, and its undeniable. >> It ruins the hammer you are accustomed too That says nothing about how to get from one place to another in some different fashion... much less draw any value judjements. >.. Ok as long as were clear that were talking about the reener style of hammer. > Juice in the right place can increase power; in the wrong place can > > actually reduce it. Same with needles. > > I dont think Juice in the right place can increase power... only more > tension can do that... at least as I understand the word power. > Juice > can increase volume... loudness if you will. > > >> Care to help me understand this? Really it SOunds like semantics to > me. Have you ever tried this technique successfully ? > I've done ti both ways. Power is power: defined it means volumne or > sound pressure with a changing balance of partials & different levels. I've heard lots and lots of voicing classes through the years...and tried just about any trick in the book I dont find that you can increase power by useing lacquer.... you can increase volume... loudness. But thats a different matter. >> Please define power > Juice raises the stiffness of a hammer (somewhat selectively, > > depending upon where it is applied), but does not need to reduce > its > > resilience, if it is used to stiffen fibers rather than glue them > > together. > > I dont really see how adding any significant amount of any type of > hardner can avoid reducing a hammer resilience. The nature of how > felt > is made to begin with rather dictates this. If you coat a fiber with > hardner, you dont just make it stiffer in one direction... you > make it > stiffer in all directions... longitudinally as well. Not to > mention how > the felting itself is affected. > Ric > >>> This is the conceptual point I seem to have trouble communicating. > If a softer hammer has to much resilience I need to decrease it so I > add a stiffening solution. What I need is limited resilience. So do you. > You also have limited resilience With the harder pressed > hammers because they are made with more heat & pressure actually > reduces resilience as well only one hammer produce darker sounds > initially & the other brighter & sometimes choked sounds. The harder > version usually have less initial springiness than the former. We dont use heat pressed hammers... but they do require needling. >> You certainly do. It isn't just pressure that makes the Renner style hammer densified. I've seen the Wurzen felt. It's quite a soft a springy felt & to get it to the configuration of density you work with requires both. > These extremes of heat & pressure also work against the way felt is > made. The springy wool is now made unspringy or less resilience. I'll defer to David Stanwood and Andre on how hammer felt is made... but the pressure bit is kind of a hand in hand thing with the felting process. The pressure I'm speaking of happens in the press > I see stiffness as stiffness. If I have the same stiffness or > springiness with a moderately lacquered hammers as I do with a > moderately hard pressed hammer. I will have a similar tone but not exact. > I want to save that one for the next post. It's Friday after all > Regards. And I have come to think that stiffness is not just stiffness... that there are other factors involved then what a steril simplified physics concept can account for... which I suppose accounts for that little difference we all seem willing to admit. >>I agree > DalePs > I want to talk tension next ....>>>Ok Tension means stress & stretch or pull right? Compression means compaction or densification right? Now I want to make a statement that you can prove for yourself. The Ronsen hammers is the most tensioned hammer in the world. & No I'm not a salesman. If the felt on your preferred hammer is really stretched & tensioned, as you keep referring to,then if you should be able to cut the hammer open from the strike point to the molding with a razor& it should immediately & dramitically bloom open. Especially in the Bass & tenor hammers. This is exactly what happens with the Ronsen hammers. All of the hammers Ronsen makes will do this but the Wurzen felt most of all. I've been at this for years now. I've cut open all kinds of hammers & I don't believe the phenomena you refer to as tension is what your using to get tone it's the compaction or compression. Most hammers will blomm open to some degree but it's not usually dramtic. Isaac hammers will also do this to some degree. The point is that a stretched elastic felt around a hammer molding should equal incresed springiness & it does. Also the hammer your using is a fine hammer & gets a fine tone but I do not believe it is under much tension as I've expressed it,It's under compaction & the inherent springiness of the felt is your ally invoicing & I know that we agree on this. Dont get me wrong in all this folks... I'm not like <<down>> on the whole lacquer tradtion here... tho I do obviously personally prefer the tensioned hammer. I /am/ concerned about misuse of chemicals of course... which is why I brought all this up... but that applies to mis-use of needles as well when it comes down to it. >>i am concerned with the misuse of chemicals as well & if you've heard nothing else the right hammer though it be perhaps softer doesn't need much but tolerates it very well without being ruined. More pre-voicing & regulation comes before any juice or needling. That every one agrees on. I'm also concerned about the mis-information or lack of clear understanding of terms & definitions applied to a product that don't them possess ie tension or maximum resiliensce which is why I chimed in on this thread. Regards--Dale > > > Erwins Pianos Restorations > 4721 Parker Rd. > Modesto, Ca 95357 > 209-577-8397 > Rebuilt Steinway , Mason &Hamlin Sales > www.Erwinspiano.com > ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://www.moypiano.com/ptg/pianotech.php/attachments/7e/98/e9/28/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment--
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