Octave Tuning

[ilex cameron ross]

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true. but to give input on the first part, i'm curious as to what everyone
else would say. i was trained at the "baptism by fire/throw 'em to the
wolves" school, where you didn't get to tune the nice pianos until you
learned how to make the most abused practice-room uprights sound like a
piano. it took me eight hours to tune my first piano. be patient with
yourself!
-ilex
  -----Original Message-----
  From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org]On
Behalf Of Richard Cromwell
  Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 3:59 PM
  To: 'Pianotech'
  Subject: RE: Octave Tuning


  I would not suggest practicing your tuning on someone else’s piano…
especially if you want to stay friends with them.



  R.Cromwell

  Cromwell's Piano Service – Detroit,MI




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  From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On
Behalf Of Matthew Todd
  Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 2:13 PM
  To: Pianotech
  Subject: Re: Octave Tuning



  Thanks for the replies.  I am practicing my tuning on a 1913 Hinze
upright.  Is that doing me more harm than good here?  I think it is hard to
hear lots of stuff on that piano, but then again, I am a beginner, so I
don't know if it's more the piano or more me not having trained ears yet.  I
know lots of families with much newer pianos, should I try to hook up with
one of them and maybe work it out with them to practice my tuning on it?



  Matthew

  BobDavis88@aol.com wrote:

    Matthew writes:

      When I tune the temperament octave (A3-A4), it needs to be a 4:2
octave, correct?

    No. Read the many replies which said that it should usually be wider
than that.

      And one way to test this octave is to play the A two octaves above the
lower note as the test key, to hear the partials in the octave, am I right?

    Not exactly, but read Don Rose's comments on ghosting.

        If the octave you are testing has no beat whatsoever, you have a
perfect temperament octave, is this true?

    No. There is no such thing as a beatless octave. An octave which is not
beating at one level, such as 4:2, will be beating at all other coincident
partials, such as 2:1, 6:3, 8:4. The higher the beatless coincident is in
the chain, the wider the octave. A good compromise octave is usually pretty
quiet, though,



    Matthew,



    If you have kept this trail of posts on octave tuning, please go back
and re-read it, and the links to which you were referred, including the ones
to the AccuTuner manual Appendices F and H. People are happy to spend time
helping you, but you've got to do your homework and read the replies. At the
risk of repetition, I include, directly below, a copy of my post from last
week on this subject:

    Bob Davis

    -------------

    Matthew's original question was how to tune a 4:2 octave. Several
people, myself included, sent the tests, aural and visual. Whether that
[meaning 4:2] is appropriate for the temperament octave on a particular
piano is a second question. Tuning so that "the 10th is just noticeably
faster than the third" might produce a good width of octave, but it is NOT a
4:2. [It's wider]



    A clean 4:2 octave IS wide at 2:1, and narrow at 6:3. Most aural tuners
naturally gravitate towards a temperament octave that is very slightly wide
of 4:2 ("the 10th is just noticeably faster than the third"), which will be
substantially wide of 2:1 and a tiny narrow of 6:3. This gives an octave
that is pretty clean-sounding, and produces fifths which are pretty clean
and fourths that aren't too trashy. Any octave size can be divided into 12
equal half steps. A true 4:2 octave will produce cleaner fourths and more
movement in the fifths, and on most pianos will be unnecessarily narow.
However, on some pianos with high inharmonicity, a wide temperament octave
added to a clean octave below, will produce a double octave that is too
noisy. It's a balancing act.


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