This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment I've found that a smooth pull motion works best for me on Steinway grands, although on some the jerk motion will work. While using a smooth motion, applying some downward pressure on the end of the tuning lever may also help reduce the flagpoling effect. It's something you have to get used to, but once you figure it out, you'll have it forever. Regards, John Formsma _____ From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of Alan Barnard Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 7:04 PM To: James H Frazee; Pianotech Subject: Re: The Art & Science, was RE: Setting tuning pins To use the slow pull on the S&S--especially if the pin is jumpy--it seems to work well to first lower pitch a few cents then gently, slowly, steadily (while whacking) raise it to slightly, I say again, slightly over pitch. Then just let it settle (while whacking) without pushing the pin back, i.e., without using the hammer to "set" the pin. If your first pull is not high enough or, especially, if you pulled too high and end up sharp, then you need to push down a few cents and start over. You get pretty good at hitting it on the mark, after a bit. Have fun. Alan Barnard Salem, MO -----Original Message----- From: James H Frazee Sent: Dec 19, 2005 4:12 PM To: tune4u@earthlink.net Subject: Re: The Art & Science, was RE: Setting tuning pins Alan, Thanks for your thoughtful and complete reply! Actually, I normally use Liz Baker's WJB method although I started out using Randy Potter's/Franz Mohr's method simply because I had taken the Potter course until I gave up on it. I haven't tried the slow pull yet, though, and that may be just the ticket for this piano! It's an M that suffers from what I call "aggressive neglect"; hadn't been tuned for eighteen years, was over a full whole step flat to start and was so dusty inside that the dust had actually solidified. That said, it took two tunings to get it playable, except for one string of E3 which would slip its gears if I fussed too much. Finally got it to hold and told the owner to keep his fingers crossed for his party last weekend and call me if it went out again. So far, no call but that could also be because they won't touch or tune the piano for another 18 years. I will try to the slow pull, though, because it would probably be safer on this one. Thanks again! ----- Original Message ----- From: Alan Barnard <mailto:tune4u@earthlink.net> To: Pianotech <mailto:pianotech@ptg.org> Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 4:05 PM Subject: The Art & Science, was RE: Setting tuning pins On many Shteinveigh Und Zunz you have to kinda sneak up to the pitch. Gee, that was clear ... Let me try again. The idea of setting the pin by jerking it slightly over pitch and back pressuring to settle it on pitch doesn't always work on the S&S. I have often found it helpful to use the slow steady pull rather than "notch" tuning on these babies. That way you can estimate the slightly amount of overpull needed and let it settle to pitch without putting any back pressure on the hammer. This is the ONLY way I've been able to tune the tenor and low treble of one particular M that I tune. Having said that, here's a quote from the Randy Potter Course: "Steinway pianos do not have plate bushings and some technicians have difficulty getting the pins in tune because their method of tuning ends up wiggling the tuning pin around (flagpoling), especially if the pins are tight. I find that I can get the piano into tune quicker, and it tends to hold better, when I use notch tuning for these pianos. And this is the method I was taught when I studied with Franz Mohr ... (at Steinway)" See? Now that is different from MY experience. Is either idea "right" or "wrong"? No, I don't think so. Liz Baker, who kept the St. Louis Symphony's three Steinway D's humming sweetly for 21 years, calls her technique "wiggle, jerk, and bang." She puts a vibration energy into the hammer (the wiggle) then makes very small notches (the jerk) while hitting a sharp blow on the key (the bang). That's different than the slow pull I described above but anyone who can tune for Rachmaninoff concertos obviously knows how to set a stable pin, so her technique is certainly worth a try, too. Having said all that, I'd like to recommend the book "Different Strokes" by Ken Burton, RPT, available thru Randy Potter, www.pianotuning,com. Not only are many concepts, theories, and techniques described but he begins the book by saying (page 3) "Every piano tunes differently." I sincerely believe that is true! Steinways, perhaps because they lack collars, DO seem to have a characteristic feel BUT it is by no means specific or unique, and there is certainly no single approach that works on all of them, or any other type or brand of pianos. I have come to believe that ONLY tuning many pianos, with some experimentation and active THINKING about what the pins feel like, what different hammers feel like, etc., gives one the real skill necessary to confidently approach any piano and know that you can create a good and STABLE tuning. In short, I don't think you develop a "technique" with the hammer that is unique to you, unique to a type of hammer, unique to any brand of pianos, or unique to any piano, for that matter. What we must develop (it only comes with much experience) is the ability to FINESSE each pin into place--regardless of pin feel, string friction, etc.--based on the tactile and aural feedback THAT PARTICULAR pin is giving you as you tune it. Though there are technical skills to learn and science and theory, I strongly believe that ultimately the ability to tune quickly, well, and with stability, is a rather highly refined ART. And it just flat takes time and experience to develop any art form. Alan Barnard Salem, Missouri ----- Original Message ----- From: James H Frazee <mailto:jimfrazee@msn.com> To: pianotech <mailto:pianotech@ptg.org> Sent: 12/19/2005 12:39:26 PM Subject: Setting tuning pins What methodSleeping half-moon emoticon do you use for setting tuning pins, particularly one that "jumps" on an S&S grand? Salem, Missouri ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://www.moypiano.com/ptg/pianotech.php/attachments/c7/7a/79/a7/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment--
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