German loops on M Bass strings

[Ron Nossaman]

>> Absolutely, at the very least, get those core diameters down to 
>> something reasonable!
> 
> And delay the attack?  I can't speak for the 'M' but I have tried a 
> substantial double cover with a thinner core wire on the bottom notes of 
> the 'O' (138cm at A1) and would say that it is _less_ suitable to the 
> piano than the original.  Bottom A on that piano has a 26 core with a 
> 2.10mm cover.  It is practically impossible to wind such a cover, let 
> alone a 220 on a 22 or 23, so a double cover is essential if you require 
> the same or greater tension.  Certainly a double cover with greater 
> tension on a finer core wire may give a more "pleasing" sustained 
> individual note, but for most purposes that is not what is required.  
> What is needed is a vibration that starts promptly and shakes the case 
> of the piano.  If thin cores and double covers were the recipe for a 
> "good bass" then Blüthners and Bösendorfers might rule the concert halls 
> and salons.  Good staccato performance is far more important in my opinion.

To each his own. I much prefer the sound of the smaller core, 
double wrap, and at least the possibility of some fundamental 
in the bass. I'll give up the attack clank any chance I get in 
trade.



> If there is any pivoting then it is at the hitch-plate bearing, surely, 
> and not at the pin? There is never a straight line from the hitch-pin
> to the bridge.  

There is with a vertical hitch. There is no aliquot or plate 
mound with this system. The string is in a straight line 
between the hitch and the bridge, and the English loop does 
indeed pivot on the hitch. Bearing is adjusted by the height 
of the loop on the pin. Photo attached.


>As to any supposed superiority of the German eye, let 
> alone the double German eye, I will suspend judgment until I have 
> produced experimental data to compare them.  I think it's a valid line 
> of enquiry but I have my doubts and if there were as clear an advantage 
> in the German eye as recent posts seems to suggest, I wonder why so many 
> excellent and thoughtful makers have stuck with the English eye.  I've 
> often wondered if it was simply that the French and English would not 
> let the Germans know how they made their eyes, so they had to carry on 
> with the other style until they discovered the secret :-)
> 
> JD

No one's touting the superiority of the German loop over the 
English. The point is it unquestionably makes a more flexible 
back scale in those pianos with cantilevered bridges, where 
the longest possible speaking length left the shortest 
possible back scale, which severely limited soundboard 
movement in the bass. This isn't random speculation, it's been 
shown to help what is a widespread poor design practice, when 
you don't get the option to redesign.
Ron N
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