German loops on M Bass strings

[John Delacour]

At 3:54 pm -0600 22/12/06, Ron Nossaman wrote:

>>[R.O.:] The standard M scale at A1 has a speaking length of 124 cm. 
>>With the standard 1.5 mm core and a wrap diameter of 5.6, nothing 
>>much is going to happen down there with the stock spec', regardless 
>>of how good or otherwise the sound board might be. I'd suggest a 
>>re-scale with something like 1.3 or 1.225 for the core with a 
>>double wrap taken up to around 6.0 or a bit more.
>
>Absolutely, at the very least, get those core diameters down to 
>something reasonable!

And delay the attack?  I can't speak for the 'M' but I have tried a 
substantial double cover with a thinner core wire on the bottom notes 
of the 'O' (138cm at A1) and would say that it is _less_ suitable to 
the piano than the original.  Bottom A on that piano has a 26 core 
with a 2.10mm cover.  It is practically impossible to wind such a 
cover, let alone a 220 on a 22 or 23, so a double cover is essential 
if you require the same or greater tension.  Certainly a double cover 
with greater tension on a finer core wire may give a more "pleasing" 
sustained individual note, but for most purposes that is not what is 
required.  What is needed is a vibration that starts promptly and 
shakes the case of the piano.  If thin cores and double covers were 
the recipe for a "good bass" then Blüthners and Bösendorfers might 
rule the concert halls and salons.  Good staccato performance is far 
more important in my opinion.

>Indeed I am, and a shorter version of the English loop isn't really 
>necessary. The pivoting action of the loop on the pin makes the 
>stiffness of the twisted part pretty much irrelevant.

If there is any pivoting then it is at the hitch-plate bearing, 
surely, and not at the pin?  There is never a straight line from the 
hitch-pin to the bridge.  As to any supposed superiority of the 
German eye, let alone the double German eye, I will suspend judgment 
until I have produced experimental data to compare them.  I think 
it's a valid line of enquiry but I have my doubts and if there were 
as clear an advantage in the German eye as recent posts seems to 
suggest, I wonder why so many excellent and thoughtful makers have 
stuck with the English eye.  I've often wondered if it was simply 
that the French and English would not let the Germans know how they 
made their eyes, so they had to carry on with the other style until 
they discovered the secret :-)

JD