This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment Thank you Andrew, for your answer.=20 I had read much before asking the question... I understood the theory, = but I wanted to know in what measure it was something very strict or if = sometimes piano were tuned as if being a "theoretical piano", just for = an example to match them with other instrument not needing stretched = tuning... So my question was more about usages or fashions than = technical... >From your explanation, and from another that came directly on my e-mail, = I understand that there are no exceptions to stretching... ok, In fact I = knew the problem of tuning very different pianos... but then my question = is "how is it usually solved ?", especially when a piano plays with an = orchestre. And about temperament, are there also temperaments more commonly used ? = amongst tuners ? and amongst clients ? Philippe ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Andrew and Rebeca Anderson=20 To: Pianotech List=20 Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 3:53 PM Subject: Re: temperaments - choosing ? stretched ? not stretched ? Phillippe, I am not sure what you mean by a "stretched temperament." Tuning is = stretched on a piano because of inharmonicity caused by the stiffness of = piano wire. When the wire subdivides vibrations after being struck by = the hammer it does so losing a little length with each subdivision = because the wire is stiff. The higher the partial, the more length is = lost and the sharper the coincident tone. When tuning a piano aurally, = stretch occurs naturally as you match those partials. You hear the tone = blossom or open up, if you will, as you come into coincidence. Where = you place it in that narrow zone is a matter of taste--narrow, middle or = wide. Because different pianos are scaled (choice of wire size) differently, = no one recording of reference tones will work throughout the compass. = Sometimes manufacturers will "refine" their scaling in a given model = more than once in a year and the same model of piano will actually have = a different scale. The result of different scales is different tuning = sometimes obvious at the extreme ends of the compass. The pianos will = not harmonize to a greater or lessor degree. Actually, a lot of scaling = refinement happens at the break from the long bridge to the bass bridge = and the break from wound strings to unwound strings. =20 An example of how scaling differences can show up in real life = happened at a university where my wife worked as a pianist. They had a = NY Steinway D and a Bosendorfer concert grand. For a concert they chose = to have four-hand, two piano accompaniment of the mass choir. I was = attending the concert and during an intermission the choral director = approached me and asked/complained why their tuner couldn't get the = pianos in tune with each other. Knowing the person in question was a = fine, pre-eminent technician, I knew the problem wasn't the tuning and = asked about the pianos. I explained how different piano makers would = scale their instruments differently pursuing different philosophies of = sound and that in order for a piano to be "in-tune" the resulting scales = must be tuned differently. The only perfectly harmonious note she could = count on would be A4, middle A. (Even then such different pianos would = respond to climate differently and go out of tune differently.) = Steinway with its low tension scale and Bosendorfer with its high = tension scale were destined to clash. Those piano-makers have very = different goals they accomplish with their instruments. The university = has since purchased another Steinway D. This is why guitar tuners do not work for tuning pianos. Piano tuners = are more complex and cost multiples of an ordinary tuner. There are a = variety of electronic tuners offered explicitly for tuning pianos. The = cheap ones have stretch templates that may or may not do a good job of = "parodying" the piano you are tuning. The mid-level ones sample three = notes on a piano and then calculate a stretch curve for the entire = piano. The high-end one measures each note you tune and fits it into = the scale based on the measurements and records those measurements along = with partial strength to influence the placement of other notes. = Scaling breaks occur at many places in the piano. Every time you change = wire size, you have a scaling break. That will influence tuning. = People who tune relying strictly on their ETD will find that aural = checks of an FAC type ETD will reveal tuning problems on pianos that = have prominent scaling breaks (usual in little pianos). As to temperament preferences, Equal Temperament is the most dissonant = temperament. It is also the most flexible temperament, allowing = transposition without changing the character of a musical piece. The = further you wander from equal towards just temperament the more = consonant common keys and intervals will become. This comes at a price. = The dissonance will be confined more and more into increasingly = dissonant keys/intervals. The repertoire becomes more and more = constrained by the tuning. I like well-temperaments. I've enjoyed = Barnes Bach on a piano for some time. The piano sounded much better and = more powerful as many intervals were close to consonant. The difficulty = was in the more modern repertoire. Debussy came across more like = sand-paper then the creamy/dreamy sounds you expect from this composer. = Composers that utilized unequal temperaments wrote pieces that took = advantage of those inequalities. When you switch keys in Mozart, = Beethovan, Bach etc. you audibly switch gears in a well-temperament. = Modern composers wrote for what they heard on the piano, some advocated = for ET. Understand what you are getting when you choose a tuning and = then make your choice. Good luck, Andrew Anderson At 06:30 AM 2/12/2006, you wrote: Hi all,=20 =20 I'm currently studying temperaments, and I wonder if a tuner always = use a stretched temperament,=20 especially since this doesn't seems quite compatible with the use of = electronic tuning devices. (for the not aural tuners...) =20 This question, especially since I've a CD with reference tones for a = stretched temperament, which=20 seems quite strange since a stretched temperament should depend on = the kind of piano, shouldn't=20 they ? So what ? =20 subsidiary question : as a tuner, do you prefer to use equal = temperament ? or do you prefer to use=20 another one ? (which one) ... Or do your clients often have their = specific requests ? (in this case what are you commonly asked ?) =20 Philippe Errembault ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment Une pièce jointe HTML a été enlevée... URL: https://www.moypiano.com/ptg/pianotech.php/attachments/26/1f/8c/5a/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment--
This PTG archive page provided courtesy of Moy Piano Service, LLC