Poll : temperaments - choosing ? ( "stretched ? not stretched ?" part answered )

[Philippe Errembault]

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Thank you Andrew, for your answer.=20

I had read much before asking the question... I understood the theory, =
but I wanted to know in what measure it was something very strict or if =
sometimes piano were tuned as if being a "theoretical piano", just for =
an example to match them with other instrument not needing stretched =
tuning... So my question was more about usages or fashions than =
technical...

>From your explanation, and from another that came directly on my e-mail, =
I understand that there are no exceptions to stretching... ok, In fact I =
knew the problem of tuning very different pianos... but then my question =
is "how is it usually solved ?", especially when a piano plays with an =
orchestre.

And about temperament, are there also temperaments more commonly used ? =
amongst tuners ? and amongst clients ?

Philippe
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Andrew and Rebeca Anderson=20
  To: Pianotech List=20
  Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 3:53 PM
  Subject: Re: temperaments - choosing ? stretched ? not stretched ?


  Phillippe,
  I am not sure what you mean by a "stretched temperament."  Tuning is =
stretched on a piano because of inharmonicity caused by the stiffness of =
piano wire.  When the wire subdivides vibrations after being struck by =
the hammer it does so losing a little length with each subdivision =
because the wire is stiff.  The higher the partial, the more length is =
lost and the sharper the coincident tone.  When tuning a piano aurally, =
stretch occurs naturally as you match those partials.  You hear the tone =
blossom or open up, if you will, as you come into coincidence.  Where =
you place it in that narrow zone is a matter of taste--narrow, middle or =
wide.

  Because different pianos are scaled (choice of wire size) differently, =
no one recording of reference tones will work throughout the compass.  =
Sometimes manufacturers will "refine" their scaling in a given model =
more than once in a year and the same model of piano will actually have =
a different scale.  The result of different scales is different tuning =
sometimes obvious at the extreme ends of the compass.  The pianos will =
not harmonize to a greater or lessor degree.  Actually, a lot of scaling =
refinement happens at the break from the long bridge to the bass bridge =
and the break from wound strings to unwound strings. =20

  An example of how scaling differences can show up in real life =
happened at a university where my wife worked as a pianist.  They had a =
NY Steinway D and a Bosendorfer concert grand.  For a concert they chose =
to have four-hand, two piano accompaniment of the mass choir.  I was =
attending the concert and during an intermission the choral director =
approached me and asked/complained why their tuner couldn't get the =
pianos in tune with each other.  Knowing the person in question was a =
fine, pre-eminent technician, I knew the problem wasn't the tuning and =
asked about the pianos.  I explained how different piano makers would =
scale their instruments differently pursuing different philosophies of =
sound and that in order for a piano to be "in-tune" the resulting scales =
must be tuned differently.  The only perfectly harmonious note she could =
count on would be A4, middle A.  (Even then such different pianos would =
respond to climate differently and go out of tune differently.)  =
Steinway with its low tension scale and Bosendorfer with its high =
tension scale were destined to clash.  Those piano-makers have very =
different goals they accomplish with their instruments.  The university =
has since purchased another Steinway D.

  This is why guitar tuners do not work for tuning pianos.  Piano tuners =
are more complex and cost multiples of an ordinary tuner.  There are a =
variety of electronic tuners offered explicitly for tuning pianos.  The =
cheap ones have stretch templates that may or may not do a good job of =
"parodying" the piano you are tuning.  The mid-level ones sample three =
notes on a piano and then calculate a stretch curve for the entire =
piano.  The high-end one measures each note you tune and fits it into =
the scale based on the measurements and records those measurements along =
with partial strength to influence the placement of other notes.  =
Scaling breaks occur at many places in the piano.  Every time you change =
wire size, you have a scaling break.  That will influence tuning.  =
People who tune relying strictly on their ETD will find that aural =
checks of an FAC type ETD will reveal tuning problems on pianos that =
have prominent scaling breaks (usual in little pianos).

  As to temperament preferences, Equal Temperament is the most dissonant =
temperament.  It is also the most flexible temperament, allowing =
transposition without changing the character of a musical piece.  The =
further you wander from equal towards just temperament the more =
consonant common keys and intervals will become.  This comes at a price. =
 The dissonance will be confined more and more into increasingly =
dissonant keys/intervals.  The repertoire becomes more and more =
constrained by the tuning.  I like well-temperaments.  I've enjoyed =
Barnes Bach on a piano for some time.  The piano sounded much better and =
more powerful as many intervals were close to consonant.  The difficulty =
was in the more modern repertoire.  Debussy came across more like =
sand-paper then the creamy/dreamy sounds you expect from this composer.  =
Composers that utilized unequal temperaments wrote pieces that took =
advantage of those inequalities.  When you switch keys in Mozart, =
Beethovan, Bach etc. you audibly switch gears in a well-temperament.  =
Modern composers wrote for what they heard on the piano, some advocated =
for ET.  Understand what you are getting when you choose a tuning and =
then make your choice.

  Good luck,
  Andrew Anderson

  At 06:30 AM 2/12/2006, you wrote:

    Hi all,=20
    =20
    I'm currently studying temperaments, and I wonder if a tuner always =
use a stretched temperament,=20
    especially since this doesn't seems quite compatible with the use of =
electronic tuning devices.
    (for the not aural tuners...)
    =20
    This question, especially since I've a CD with reference tones for a =
stretched temperament, which=20
    seems quite strange since a stretched temperament should depend on =
the kind of piano, shouldn't=20
    they ? So what ?
    =20
    subsidiary question : as a tuner, do you prefer to use equal =
temperament ? or do you prefer to use=20
    another one ? (which one) ... Or do your clients often have their =
specific requests ? (in this case
    what are you commonly asked ?)
    =20
    Philippe Errembault


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