Bridge Seating (was Re: Where to notch a bridge, & relative effects ????? (Advice sought)

[David Love]

I think it's more likely that the "seating" had to do with how the string
bent around the pin.  Next time try "seating" the string by gently pulling
or pushing the string toward the pin rather than down toward the bridge.  My
guess is that you will get the same result as the string bends around the
pin and makes contact more with the side of the pin rather than toward the
back of the pin.  That will also move the bridge contact out toward the edge
of the notch.  

David Love
davidlovepianos at comcast.net 
www.davidlovepianos.com

-----Original Message-----
From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf
Of Joseph Alkana
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 8:18 AM
To: Pianotech List
Subject: Re: Bridge Seating (was Re: Where to notch a bridge,& relative
effects ????? (Advice sought)

Ron,
Well, you have your opinion, I have mine. One example of what I'm trying to 
express is the case of a new piano that has a wire break as I tune it. There

wasn't any false beating or fuzzy tone before it broke. When I replaced the 
wire I got a very fuzzy tone with a slight false beat. Then I seated the 
string. Problem gone. It isn't due to any other factor except the fact that 
the wire as originally strung by me simple was not making firm contact with 
the bridge. It was touching, yes, but not firmly enough.
Joseph Alkana RPT
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ron Nossaman" <rnossaman at cox.net>
To: "Pianotech List" <pianotech at ptg.org>
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 9:59 PM
Subject: Re: Bridge Seating (was Re: Where to notch a bridge,& relative 
effects ????? (Advice sought)


>
>
>> Never measured, Ron, just using my eyes. But I certainly have sat in 
>> classes on dealer piano prep where the representatives of several 
>> manufacturers advise checking to see that the wire is making solid 
>> contact with the bridge and pin as a very early step in the prep 
>> sequence. The amount of contact I'm talking about would be the difference

>> between just barely touching, and a solid contact with pin and bridge. 
>> Much like a violinist or any string player that uses a light touch to 
>> produce a harmonic vs. a solid contact to define a pitch. Might be a poor

>> analogy but the best I can think of at the moment. In either case, a 
>> feeler gage would be useless.
>
> If it can't be ascertained that the string is above the bridge, then it is

> an unwarranted assumption. A belief, rather than a reality. Secondarily, 
> if a reasonably cogent and rational explanation of how this is possible 
> within the known limits of simple mechanics can't be produced, it's sheep 
> dip.
>
>
>>However, I have seen many new pianos with the wire well up on the bridge 
>>pin and no contact with the bridge and I don't need a feeler gage to 
>>ascertain this.
>
> No, you haven't, and yes, you did, or at least some rational explanation 
> of how strings can be up bridge pins.
>
>
>>Poor stringing techniques probably employed at the factory, or 
>>intentionally left as is assuming adequate dealer prep down the line. 
>>Sorry, I just don't buy the idea of the wire magically seating itself 
>>tight each and every time you string a wire.
>
> Yet you "believe" that a wire can float above the bridge cap against 
> positive downbearing and the clamping action of side bearing and pin 
> slant, which indicates to me that it is entirely a belief system, 
> unrelated to anything real and demonstrable.
>
>
>>Wire high on the bridge pin of newly strung pianos is a fact as far as I'm

>>concerned, based on observation, and by listening to the tone produced 
>>before and after seating.
>
> Tone produced doesn't prove the string is not contacting the bridge cap. 
> There is another explanation that makes a whole lot more sense, within the

> constraints of known physics. It's in the archives.
>
>
>> Wire riding high on bridge pins in old pianos is probably a whole other 
>> subject as I tried to say in my first message.
>
> Same subject, same error.
>
>
>> Somewhere in all of this I hope there is some place for artistry and 
>> craftsmanship in the approach to piano preparation.
>
> I'd prefer a basic understanding of the simple forces and physical 
> mechanics involved, without invoking the nebulous mystique and smoke 
> screen of artistry.
>
> Sorry if this seems brash and uncharitable. I've just done this way too 
> many times with way too many people, and it seems to be never ending.
> Ron N
>