Egads Mike, give it a flippin' rest already. You rant and ramble far too much to be of any help. You lecture us like a grumpy grampa snarling at the boys for clacking sticks on the white picket fence. After just so much of this we get tired of hearing it and ignore you. On 9/27/07, Michael Magness <IFixPianos at yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > In the future it would be helpful for all concerned if those reading my > posts would read all of them, not just portions. > Don when he suggested that I read up on CA and pinblocks copied and > pasted a portion of my post but missed the part where I asked if the coils > were similar to the Hyundai that I do, that is further from the plate than > normal. A simple question that has never been addressed or answered, if > they're not, the rest of what I had to say becomes somewhat moot but as I > say since most folks seem to have missed reading that part and Alan or > Michelle won't or can't answer it, everyone is all caught up in the CA and > getting all sticky about it, pun intended. > Then because I don't have enough people jumping on me about enough things > already Mark Potter jumps in wanting to know why driving the pins works. I'm > certain it's on the list somewhere but what the heck. After a tuning pin has > been in place for a while the wood fibers that the threads are dependant on > for their grip get mashed down and the threads don't grip as well. When you > drive the pin deeper it helps to stir-up/stand-up some of those fibers again > giving the threads a new grip, at the same time the pin is tapered and a > thicker portion of the pin has moved into a different part of the hole along > it's entire length. So that 1/8 tap or perhaps a little more actually gives > the whole pin new area to grip. That's the way it was explained to me and I > thought it made sense but if there are those with other opinions, great! > Mark continues, supposing there is a crack or delamination. I don't know > about you Mark but I visually inspect blocks for delaminations prior to > driving pins, in grands it usually can be seen. I of course support the > block when I drive them. > As for cracks you can feel them as you tune you'll find a pin line that is > looser or won't hold as well as the others, sometimes it will be on the > diagonal, it's not hard if you know what you're looking for. I expected > neither in the particular piano we were discussing and felt Alan or Michelle > (the way the post first arrived, I couldn't tell who was asking and who was > answering)certainly had enough experience to ascertain such should it > present itself. > William Monroe jumped in explaining that CA was perfectly acceptable for > pins that were already far in and weren't holding, again I stop here and > point out that he must have not read my first post asking about the coil to > plate distance, this is the crucial point that EVERYONE seems to have > glossed over! WHY? Alan then weighs in again with horror stories about > tuning pianos where someone drove the pins in too far, again read the second > paragraph, here it is, > About the loose pins in the block, do the coils look to be a little > higher from the plate than normal? I noticed they looked that way in the one > I do. I figured at some point I would probably have to drive them, right now > they seem tight enough, I just have to watch my hammer technique and not get > lazy or flagpoling can be a problem > > Now how did everyone miss that? Why did Alan or Michelle or whoever has > the loose pins never answer that? > > By the way Alan's suggestion for CA and the DC I didn't see until hours > after my post when I noticed a couple of things in my spam file and looked, > one was Alan's post regarding that from 12 hours earlier! > > Alan wants to know what I mean by those who are too quick to use CA. > Simply that since I began monitoring the list I have seen CA advanced as the > first and best repair method for loose sound board ribs, soundboard cracks > warped away from ribs, cracked keys, loose hammers, sprung hammer felt from > the molding, loose bridge caps, loose bridge pins, stripped screws, stripped > capstans, broken hammer shanks and that is only a partial list that comes to > mind. > > I have nothing against CA for pinblocks, I just feel it isn't the > permanent solution so many of you feel it is. > > I have experience in this, I tune for many military families and had one > that had returned from Alaska with a Wurlitzer console that had been CA'd > there, 1 year prior to them being transferred here(southwest Wisconsin). > When I tuned it the first time I could feel many loose pins barely holding > and reported this to the customer, suggesting CA. She told me about it > having already being done. I told her I would do some consulting and get > back with her. I spoke to some of the other people in my chapter, we came to > the conclusion that it couldn't hurt! So I re-applied CA, the results > weren't stellar but it was better than when I first tuned it. By the way the > "housewife/military mom" is also a chemical engineer! So she was of some > help when I was questioning whether to re-apply or not. > The point of this story? Did the first CA treatment not work as well due > to a lack of humidity(Alaska in winter)that was her theory, which I took > away as something to remember in the future. The 2nd didn't work as well > because of the first, hers and mine. > I relate this anecdotally, not as a condemnation of CA treatment but > simply as an experience I had that helps to shape my attitude and belief > that CA treatment is not permanent, it's longevity will be measured by how > bad off the piano was when it was treated. > > Oh and Alan, you are welcome for the info I provided on where to find the > regulation specs for that Hyundai. I noticed no one else bothered to give > that to you and you got too busy making me the whipping boy for the 3rd day > in a row to thank me. > > Speaking of that I want to thank one and all for your generous and warm > acceptance of my posts. Even when I preface them with "in my opinion" or "if > such and such exists, then I would suggest" they get torn apart, the > meaning, meat and flavor are all ripped asunder then reformed into something > I barely recognize as my words and thrown back in my face! I don't send > these posts in anger or spewing an "I know more than you do" attitude as so > many of you answer them with. I just post with what I know and believe to be > true, what works for me and has for many years, if it doesn't work for you, > don't do it! I won't, as so many of you do, shove it down your throat. If > you disagree with me, state your case clearly and concisely but please > address ALL of what I've written. Distorting what I've written to make your > case, doesn't make your case, it only proves you can't make your case > honestly! > > > Below is an example of a statement regarding the negative effects of low > humidity on CA that went UNCHALLENGED on the list. > > I remember hearing or reading somewhere that any CA that comes from a > grocery store, or hardware store, or "big box" store must meet certain > shelf > life requirements. To assure that shelf life, additives are used which > can > have an effect on performance... > > Stick to the hobby shops, or mail order - My best results have come from > multiple passes instead of one heavy application. Also, be aware that low > humidity can have a negative impact on the pinblock CA treatment.... as > some > of you in the dry southwest have reported. > > Ron Koval > Chicagoland > > > ___________________________________________________________________________________________ > > Mike > > > Unless you can question your own beliefs, you have no place questioning > the beliefs of others. > > > Michael Magness > Magness Piano Service > 608-786-4404 > www.IFixPianos.com <http://www.ifixpianos.com/> > email mike at ifixpianos.com > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://www.moypiano.com/ptg/pianotech.php/attachments/20070927/ebc42839/attachment.html
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