Hi Mark - I have some comments on your post. I don't mean to be picking on you - but rather to clarify some points - there are always newbies reading this list who might be easily influenced......
first, if it is bad enough to need a pitch raise, I warn the customer there will be an additional charge. I always ask over the phone when the last tuning was, and let them know before I drive out that it may need one.
That's exactly what I do also - works for me.
As for some measuring technique, I think the one thing being an aural tuner gives me is the advantage of knowing how bad it sounds to my fork. I can show this audibly to the customer if they ask, or I can tune a key to pitch and play an octave.
Good point. Maybe another good way for the aural tuner would be to tune one string of a unison to the proper pitch, leave the other strings flat, and then play the note - let the customer listen to the individual strings and then together - anyone has to be able to hear that.
After that, you could also tune the flat string to within 2 cents of the target pitch and play the two strings together to show the piano owner the maximum tunable deviation allowable to get a good tuning without a pitch raise.
One of my employees has the tune-lab system, and he explains to me how the piano is measured, and how the machine pitch raises.
Please! You mean how the machine calculates pitch raise targets. The piano technician raises the pitch of the piano.
We have tuned side-by-side in many college rooms, and often watched each other. This is the first machine which matches my ear almost to perfection. It is so accurate that we are often less than one cent different when we reach the last octave. The tune-lab is easy to read and see where the pitch is if you know what you are looking at. Many people just want to be told why they need one, and will trust you based on your good work.
You are not familiar with Reyburn Cybertuner or Verituner? The SAT?
As for the piano life-saving system, while they work well when properly installed, I have seen them poorly installed buzzing on the soundboard, dumping massive amount of humidity into the piano soaking the felt, I have also seen them work to crack a soundboard. they MUST be installed correctly, and with the understanding that proper maintenance is a MUST. I almost never recommend the piano life-saver system in a home.
Well, that's like a physician saying that s/he would never recommend a pace-maker to a heart patient - because they MUST be installed correctly. Yes, indeed you are correct that many are not installed correctly. In fact, in more than 10 years in this business, among the several hundred Damp-Chaser heater bars I have seen in pianos, I have only seen maybe three or four installations that included a humidistat - and even two of those I had to relocate the humidistat because it was not positioned properly! But I still recommend the system. Of course you need to install the darn thing correctly.
It is always better to regulate the humidity in the room.
Absolutely. Always, always, always. Best way to go. Often impractical mostly for cost reasons, but yeah, the best way to go.
The moisture king system works to do this quite well (regulate the humidity in the room).
Hold the phone! What the heck are you talking about here? The Moisture King is a heat rod and humidistat system that is installed inside the piano, not unlike the Damp-Chaser unit. Are you suggesting that the Moisture King regulates the humidity in the entire room? Sure sounds like it. And that suggestion sure is incorrect.
I even have some customers who have gone to the expense of installing a humidity system into their heat pump. this is far better for every aspect of the home as well as the piano.
Yes, I agree - and like you stated previously, such units have to be designed and installed correctly and properly maintained. Also, whole-house dehumidification can be added.
Either way, if you install the life-saver system, be sure to do a good job for the sake of the piano.
Right. As with anything else.....
Terry Farrell
----- Original Message -----
From: perrys piano restorations
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 6:26 AM
Subject: Re: [pianotech] justify pitch raise
Hello,
My name is Mark Perry, and I am an aural tuner and rebuilder. to answer your question about justifying a pitch raise, it is interesting as I read the many responses.
first, if it is bad enough to need a pitch raise, I warn the customer there will be an additional charge. I always ask over the phone when the last tuning was, and let them know before I drive out that it may need one. As for some measuring technique, I think the one thing being an aural tuner gives me is the advantage of knowing how bad it sounds to my fork. I can show this audibly to the customer if they ask, or I can tune a key to pitch and play an octave. One of my employees has the tune-lab system, and he explains to me how the piano is measured, and how the machine pitch raises. We have tuned side-by-side in many college rooms, and often watched each other. This is the first machine which matches my ear almost to perfection. It is so accurate that we are often less than one cent different when we reach the last octave. The tune-lab is easy to read and see where the pitch is if you know what you are looking at. Many people just want to be told why they need one, and will trust you based on your good work.
As for the piano life-saving system, while they work well when properly installed, I have seen them poorly installed buzzing on the soundboard, dumping massive amount of humidity into the piano soaking the felt, I have also seen them work to crack a soundboard. they MUST be installed correctly, and with the understanding that proper maintenance is a MUST. I almost never recommend the piano life-saver system in a home. It is always better to regulate the humidity in the room. The moisture king system works to do this quite well. I even have some customers who have gone to the expense of installing a humidity system into their heat pump. this is far better for every aspect of the home as well as the piano. Either way, if you install the life-saver system, be sure to do a good job for the sake of the piano.
God Bless,
Mark
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Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 22:56:08 -0700
From: tunerryan at gmail.com
To: l-bartlett at sbcglobal.net; pianotech at ptg.org
Subject: Re: [pianotech] justify pitch raise
I used to carry around a needle type guitar tuner for showing client's pitch. This was a tip I got once from Isaac Sadigursky. However I haven't bothered for many years. I don't recall ever having to justify raising pitch. We explain to people on the phone that the SERVICING (notice not tuning) will be X amount of dollars for a 2-hour appointment. This will include raising the piano to standard pitch if necessary, and depending on time may include some minor cleaning, regulating and/or voicing. We then tell them if the piano has been well maintained it could be lower, but I won't know until I see the piano.
An idea I got recently from L.A. Tech Carl Lieberman. When we quote our prices over the phone we quote the maximum price first - since this is what people are most likely to remember. Then they can be plesantly surprised if the piano doesn't require as much time. We usually prepare people for the 2 hour appointment if they are a first time customer.
On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 10:25 PM, Leslie Bartlett <l-bartlett at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
I tuned for a first time customer today,a piano teacher who said her Kawai G3 had been regularly tuned (6-months) for years, and then missed a year because the technician retired. Unfortunately the piano was a disaster. In Tunelab I could save all the overpull measurements and show the lady (a masters degreed teacher) each note and it's relation to "0 cents". Seeing the mess, she understood immediately because she had a visual reference to justify my contention. But she was in agreement that had I just walked in,and said "you need to pay me for a pitch raise", she would have been less than sympathetic.
My question is "How do the strictly aural tuners justify or "prove" a need for serious pitch raise, convincing people of the veracity of the claim?" It seems with no measurable reference which provides some kind of proof other than opinion, could be very problematic. Opinions please. Thanks
les bartlett
--
Ryan Sowers, RPT
Puget Sound Chapter
Olympia, WA
www.pianova.net
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