If I don't think a job will turn out to MY expectations, knowing from past experience how certain pianos have turned out when I did them anyway in my earlier years, I tell them what I would do with it, if it were MY piano. If I don't think it should be fixed, I say so. If I don't think it is worth it, I say so. If I feel it is on the line of being worth it, or maybe not being worth it, I say so. My own honesty and integrity is always the best policy regardless of how much money is being spent or to what extent they are doing the work. I feel that it is my job as their hired technician to direct them in the right direction whether that be to junk the piano, rebuild it or to purchase a new one. If they insist on having it fixed anyway against my recommendations, I walk away knowing full well that regardless of what they want, they will still have the tendency, hopes and expectations that the piano will turn out better than it probably will when in fact, I know full well that it won't. My reputation is on the line too. I want a piano that will sound like it should when I'm finished. Jer From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of wimblees at aol.com Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 11:29 PM To: toddpianoworks at att.net; pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] Old upright -----Original Message----- From: Matthew Todd <toddpianoworks at att.net> To: pianotech at ptg.org Sent: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 1:29 pm Subject: Re: [pianotech] Old upright And the customer may still want to have the work done as well. TODD PIANO WORKS Matthew Todd, Piano Technician (979) 248-9578 <http://www.toddpianoworks.com/> http://www.toddpianoworks.com True, Todd. And that is where the dilemma is. On the one hand, even after giving the customer all the "bad" news, he/she still wants to have the work done, do you walk away, knowing that someone else will get the work, or do you accept the job, knowing you are going to to the best job possible? As Ed just pointed out, only by inspecting the piano will you be able to give the right answer, and only with lots of experience will you know if the piano will turn out right after all the work you've done. All I can go by is that in my 32 years in this business, I've only had one instance where the customer was hell bent on doing to work against my advice. The only reason he wanted the piano was because it had his name on the front of it. (He wasn't even related to the builder, but he thought it was "cool" to have that piano in his summer home along the river). On the other hand, I have turned away work on several occasions even though the customers wanted the work done. They probably got someone else to do the work, but I refused to work on the pianos because my conscious wouldn't allow me to do it. Wim --- On Wed, 4/8/09, wimblees at aol.com <wimblees at aol.com> wrote: From: <mailto:wimblees at aol.com> wimblees at aol.com < <mailto:wimblees at aol.com> wimblees at aol.com> Subject: Re: [pianotech] Old upright To: <mailto:ed440 at mindspring.com> ed440 at mindspring.com, <mailto:pianotech at ptg.org> pianotech at ptg.org Date: Wednesday, April 8, 2009, 7:18 PM This has nothing to do with the PTG, Ed. This has to do with treating customers with respect as far as their piano is concerned. As Del said, there are some pianos that don't deserve to be restored. And, as several people have indicated, when it is explained how much the repairs will cost to restore a piano, and what the value of the piano will be after restoration, "sentiments" all of a sudden takes a back seat. What I have seen happen too many times is a piano 'rebuilder" tell a customer that their "heirloom" piano will be worth much more than it realistically will be, for the sole purpose of having that customer spend a lot of money on having it restored. I've had customers tell me that scenario on a number of occasions, and my response has been, (which, btw, I got from other members of the PTG,) to ask the customer to ask the technician if they will buy the piano for that. I am not, in any way, trying to imply that the PTG set prices, or require our members to buy pianos that have been restored. What I am saying is we should not misinform our customers the real value is of their piano. As I say in my book: "We have to keep, as it states in our Code of Ethics, the best interest of the client in mind. In other words, we need to look at a piano for what it can do for the customer. We need to look beyond our supposed capabilities, thinking we can fix anything, and ask, "is this piano really worth fixing?" We need to be able to say to our customers, "this piano is dead", regardless of what the customer thinks of the piano. The customer might not like what you said, but it is more ethical to tell the truth, than to let her continue to believe the instrument is worth restoring." Wim -----Original Message----- From: Ed Sutton < <mailto:ed440 at mindspring.com> ed440 at mindspring.com> To: <mailto:pianotech at ptg.org> pianotech at ptg.org Sent: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 12:41 am Subject: Re: [pianotech] Old upright PTG does not establish, maintain or recommend a price structure for rebuilding pianos, nor does it require that members be willing to buy pianos for the cost of work performed. PTG does not police the pricing policies of piano technicians. The statements below are sadly ill-considered. Ed Sutton This is a problem we run across way too often. It's people like you who give reputable piano technicians a bad name. First of all, if you can do all of what you just described for only $5000, you must be working for virtually nothing, or you work so fast that you think you're making money. And if you're working that fast, I would question the quality of your work.. Second, sentiments aside, what did you tell the customer the piano will be worth when you get done rebuilding it? If you told them it would be worth anything near $5000, are you ready and willing to buy it from them for that price? If not, then you're "ripping off" the customer. Without new strings and a new finish, you're not doing a complete rebuild. All you're doing is restoring the action and player system, and it will never sell for anything close to $5000 in S. Louis, or anywhere else. This is the kind of attitude that doesn't sit well in the PTG. Perhaps that's why you got the feeling that "we" don't respect you. Wim _____ _____ <http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1219939010x1201342897/aol?redir=htt p:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B213771626%3B35379597%3Bw> New Deals on Dell Netbooks - Now starting at $299 _____ <http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1219939010x1201342897/aol?redir=htt p:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B213771626%3B35379597%3Bw> New Deals on Dell Netbooks - Now starting at $299 _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090408-0, 04/08/2009 Tested on: 4/8/2009 11:57:14 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://ptg.org/pipermail/pianotech_ptg.org/attachments/20090408/ea40cd40/attachment.html>
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