Hi everyone.
Am thinking about purchasing the new 12th Edition of the PPA and am wondering if any of you nice folks have it...what the differences are from the 11th Edition and is it worth the investment?
Comments welcomed and thanks in advance.
Marc P. Mailhot
Marco Polo Music
Westbrook, Maine USA
The Love You Take is Equal to the Love You Make...
The Beatles/Abbey Ro
The Love You Take is Equal to the Love You Make...
The Beatles/Abbey Road (The End)...1969
--- On Mon, 4/27/09, pianotech-request at ptg.org <pianotech-request at ptg.org> wrote:
From: pianotech-request at ptg.org <pianotech-request at ptg.org>
Subject: pianotech Digest, Vol 6, Issue 293
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Date: Monday, April 27, 2009, 5:37 PM
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: action ratio (Richard Brekne)
2. Re: [CAUT] More Bohemia (Avery Todd)
3. Re: [CAUT] More Bohemia (Richard Brekne)
4. Re: [CAUT] More Bohemia (David Skolnik)
5. Re: Sand-through (Chuck Behm)
6. Re: Not again, Young Chang contact for action brackets
(CHARLES BECKER)
7. Re: [CAUT] More Bohemia (Bernhard Stopper)
Hi Steve.
I'd say there were a lot of possible reasons for what you came up with. I
find there are two good ways of coming up with a fairly accurate picture of the
<<action ratio>>. Either measure the individual levers and multiply
the result of each, or do Stannwoods BW. Note that these are in fact (most
often) different ratio quantities. The BW ratio is an expression of what it
takes to put the action into a state of equilibrium. Measuring the levers
directly is an approximation of the engineered ratio... which really needs to
take into consideration the angles the parts have installed into the action...
but you can get a decent ball park figure every time just measuring the parts
directly. That is to say... you wont come up with a 4.4 ratio when in reality
the ratio is 5.8. You might be a couple 3 points off... (significant enough to
be sure) but not more.
Cheers
RicB
Ric, for whatever it's worth, I TOTALLY agree with you! His "attitude" makes me not even want to explore it. Let alone buy his "thing"!
Avery Todd
Houston, TX
On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 2:28 PM, Richard Brekne <ricb at pianostemmer.no> wrote:
Bernard.... you do indeed make it difficult to defer politely and at the same time appropriately to you.
I said nothing about you making your material known to the <<piano community>>. I said <<us>> -- as in here on the PTG lists. Please take my comments in their correct context. Indeed your article was published in the 5 languages the Euro magazine always translates too... but that part of the <<piano community>> resides in Europe, and the Euro was not read in the States at the time by more then a handful if by any at all.... The stateside part of the <<piano community>> had no idea who you were until you showed up on Pianotech about 6 years ago. I would be surprised if the rest of the <<piano community>> in the world knew who any of us are. As far as to what degree Gary Schulze's article points to a Perfect 12ths approach.... well he says different... I most certainly read it different... and I'll let you argue the matter with him if you like.
I personally don't give a hoot who thought of what first.... all I am interested in is the subject matter itself... and last time I checked... there is no law about discussing such subject matter. Indeed... strikes me that the more people talk about and listen to P-12ths material in an open and friendly environment the greater chance you will have of selling your own software. I'm not selling anything myself... just offering an implementation using software equipped to render this tuning.
Cheers
RicB
"My approach was not made known 6 years ago to the piano community,
but published already 21 years ago in a euro piano article from
1988, as Stopper temperament, where i published this method along
with the usage of a twelfth spanner tool and the discovery of the
natural form of the fifth circle which is in fact a nineteen
octaves and twelve twelfths circle.
This article has been published in 5 languages . (German, english, italian, french and danish.)
Gary Schulze´s article is not an introduction of a general P12
tuning approach."
Avery. Its worth a lot to me. Thanks muchly.
Still... it is not my intention to discourage anyone from buying his software.
Buy that (or not) on its own merits. I'm sure you will see it demonstrated
at the conventions coming up.
Cheers
RicB
Ric, for whatever it's worth, I TOTALLY agree with you! His
"attitude" makes me not even want to explore it. Let alone buy his
"thing"!
Avery Todd
Houston, TX
Bernhard -
I know there was a good deal of caloric
discussion about this in the not-to-distant past
on this list (or CAUT), so I don't want to
mindlessly re-ignite anything now. If RicB is
correct in stating that the document formerly
found on your website is no longer so available,
would you suggest another way of accessing
it? Perhaps this can be the summer where I
finally learn what I'm doing, or not doing.
David Skolnik
Hastings on Hudson, NY
At 06:24 AM 4/27/2009, you wrote:
>My approach was not made known 6 years ago to the piano community, but
>published already 21 years ago in a euro piano article from 1988, as
>Stopper temperament, where i published this method along with the
>usage of a twelfth spanner tool and the discovery of the natural form
>of the fifth circle which is in fact a nineteen octaves and twelve
>twelfths circle.
>
>This article has been published in 5 languages . (German, english,
>italian, french and danish.)
>
>Gary Schulze´s article is not an introduction of a general P12 tuning
>approach.
>
>He was rather trying to compensate for inharmonicity to make intervals
>like double octaves, twelfths, fifhts and triple octaves as pure as
>possible.
>
>In his article he is favoring a 31th root of six equal temperament to
>achive this inharmonicity compensation, what is a different thing from
>a general pure twelfth tuning world view.
>
>Bernhard Stopper
>
>Am 27.04.2009 um 12:39 schrieb Richard Brekne:
>
>> Seriously tho... there is a good deal written actually now about
>>P-12ths. I'd suggest starting with Gary's article from 1982.
It
>>contains some very fine observations that you wont find anywhere
>>else. Hunting through the archives can be time consuming... but
>>there are some good tidbits there. Stopper made himself known to us
>>about 6 years back and has a well pondered out specific system and
>>analysis of P-12ths in classic interval fraction form. I think he
>>removed that paper from his website but if he will share it with you
>>it is also a good read.
Ruth - The repair is about 6 inches in from the side of the fallboard. It turned out well, except for a halo of undercoat or wood, I'm not sure which, around the repair. The damaged area plus halo are about the size of a quarter.
What application technique would work the best for the material you sell? Would I just be doing immediate area with the damage, or as was suggested in one reply, coat the entire face of the fallboard, then sand through to the decal? Any other problems that you would anticipate I would face?
My concern is whether I should leave well enough alone, or try to make it right. The customer dinged the fallboard himself thank God) by ramming the end of a artificial Christmas tree into it, and the repair as is looks much better than the rough gouge that was there before. I just don't want to end up shaking my head thinking that I wished I had quit while I was ahead.
On the other hand, if you think it's a job I could handle, I would be glad to purchase whatever I need. Just let me know ordering information and appropriate quantities. Thanks, Chuck
P.S. Thanks also to those of you who replied to my initial plea for help. It was comforting to learn that I wasn't the first one to make this mistake, and that in fact there was a rational reason it happened (the thin finish applied to Yamahas). Upon reading your replies, I immediately called the local tattoo shop and canceled my appointment to have the word stupid tattooed to my forehead.
Derek from Young Chang e-mailed me today. My brackets are on the way. Model and
serial # is all you need. I'll advise when they arrive.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Servinsky"
<tompiano at bellsouth.net>
To: <pmc033 at earthlink.net>; <pianotech at ptg.org>
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 6:04 AM
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Not again, Young Chang contact for action brackets
> Paul
> It's not a matter if YC is supplying them for free or not. It's
getting them to respond to our orders and get the parts out. The last set that I
had to order took 6 months by the time it got to my doorstep. There is no excuse
for that.
> As I see it, the handwriting is on the wall for YC and supplying these
brackets. They have already taken a pretty big hit for all of the free parts
they've had to provide, plus the labor services paid in the past. It all
adds up, and guess what, there are plenty more which are going to need this
repair.
> Given the down economy and how all businesses cutting back anywhere they
can, it wouldn't surprised in the bit if the YC bean-counters eventually
pulls the plug on providing the free brackets offer altogether.
> Tom Servinsky
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: <pmc033 at earthlink.net>
> To: <pianotech at ptg.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 11:34 PM
> Subject: Re: [pianotech] Not again, Young Chang contact for action
brackets
>
>
>>
>> If Y.C. is still supplying the brackets free, where's the profit
motive
>> for Pianotek to produce them? When Y.C. were charging $100 or
whatever, I
>> could understand an independent supplier charging less.
>> The last set I replaced, Y.C. paid $180 for labor. That was last
year.
>> Has that changed?
>> Paul McCloud
>> San Diego
>>
>>> [Original Message]
>>> From: Ron Nossaman <rnossaman at cox.net>
>>> To: <pianotech at ptg.org>
>>> Date: 04/22/2009 8:11:59 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [pianotech] Not again, Young Chang contact for action
>> brackets
>>>
>>> Tom Servinsky wrote:
>>> > I'm surprised the folks at the big supply houses
haven't jumped on the
>>> > bandwagon and started getting these produced for their
inventory. > Seems
>>> > like this would be a guaranteed cash-cow for many years to
come.
>>> > Listening Pianotek?
>>> > Tom Servinsky
>>>
>>> I've been wondering about that for years.
>>> Ron N
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
I don't "need" to sell it.
Nor do i see a need to provide any "exploration" possibility.
For most tuners the already available ETDs are good enough.
Bernhard Stopper
Am 27.04.2009 um 21:10 schrieb Avery Todd <ptuner1 at gmail.com>:
Ric, for whatever it's worth, I TOTALLY agree with you! His "attitude" makes me not even want to explore it. Let alone buy his "thing"!
Avery Todd
Houston, TX
On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 2:28 PM, Richard Brekne <ricb at pianostemmer.no> wrote:
Bernard.... you do indeed make it difficult to defer politely and at the same time appropriately to you.
I said nothing about you making your material known to the <<piano community>>. I said <<us>> -- as in here on the PTG lists. Please take my comments in their correct context. Indeed your article was published in the 5 languages the Euro magazine always translates too... but that part of the <<piano community>> resides in Europe, and the Euro was not read in the States at the time by more then a handful if by any at all.... The stateside part of the <<piano community>> had no idea who you were until you showed up on Pianotech about 6 years ago. I would be surprised if the rest of the <<piano community>> in the world knew who any of us are. As far as to what degree Gary Schulze's article points to a Perfect 12ths approach.... well he says different... I most certainly read it different... and I'll let you argue the matter with him if you like.
I personally don't give a hoot who thought of what first.... all I am interested in is the subject matter itself... and last time I checked... there is no law about discussing such subject matter. Indeed... strikes me that the more people talk about and listen to P-12ths material in an open and friendly environment the greater chance you will have of selling your own software. I'm not selling anything myself... just offering an implementation using software equipped to render this tuning.
Cheers
RicB
"My approach was not made known 6 years ago to the piano community,
but published already 21 years ago in a euro piano article from
1988, as Stopper temperament, where i published this method along
with the usage of a twelfth spanner tool and the discovery of the
natural form of the fifth circle which is in fact a nineteen
octaves and twelve twelfths circle.
This article has been published in 5 languages . (German, english, italian, french and danish.)
Gary Schulze´s article is not an introduction of a general P12
tuning approach."
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