Jer, Great info! The first one I would have over looked and is Key to troubleshooting! > *just remove it from the piano - damper wire included and then, see if > that same note buzzes or whatever it is doing. > * The rest are GREAT and will go in my notes... Thanks lots, Scott Matthew Todd wrote: > Thanks a lot! I will taking these notes with me when I return to > reevaluate the situation. I'll report back! > > Matthew > > --- On *Sun, 12/6/09, Gerald Groot /<tunerboy3 at comcast.net>/* wrote: > > > From: Gerald Groot <tunerboy3 at comcast.net> > Subject: Re: [pianotech] Damper Issue??? > To: pianotech at ptg.org > Date: Sunday, December 6, 2009, 5:15 PM > > *Correction. I said: ” If it is, excess glue can and will edge > its way down the damper felt or stick out enough to ever so > slightly touch the damper next to it. " I meant to say: that > the excess glue may stick out just far enough to ever so slightly > touch the STRING next to it. Not the damper next to it. > Sigh…. Always find mistakes after it is sent… Probably more too > that I missed… :-)* > > * * > > *From:* pianotech-bounces at ptg.org > [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] *On Behalf Of *Gerald Groot > *Sent:* Sunday, December 06, 2009 12:05 PM > *To:* pianotech at ptg.org > *Subject:* Re: [pianotech] Damper Issue??? > > > > *Matthew,* > > * * > > *What John F and Tom D says, is also what I would do. In many > cases such as this one, the process of elimination is sometimes > the only way to find it. One of the easiest ways to completely > eliminate the damper head or damper wire as being the problem > would be to just remove it from the piano - damper wire included > and then, see if that same note buzzes or whatever it is doing. > If it no longer does with the damper removed, now you know that it > is a damper issue of some kind and that it is THAT particular > damper. * > > * * > > *If it is a damper issue, you will need to determine where the > problem is coming from on the damper. The felt? The bend in the > wire? The wire itself? The damper head? The damper lever lead > weights? Dampers not properly aligned? A shifted damper guide > rail? A neighboring damper felt or wire? Excess glue? Hardened > damper felts? * > > * * > > *Keep this in mind too. Often times, if it is the damper wire, it > could possibly be the wire to the note NEXT to your string that is > touching your wire, rather than the damper that actually rests on > the offending note. * > > * * > > *Yes, squeeze the damper head with a flat parallel pliers shoving > the damper wire into the head more. But ONLY if this is the > problem. Don't guess. Guessing sometimes causes more problems > for us and therefore, more wasted time and expense for both > parties. Be careful when doing this. It is easy to put a kink in > the wire placing the damper on a different angle that where it was > originally. If this happens then the damper felt may no longer > rest properly on the wires and might allow it to no longer shut > off the strings correctly. It is very easy for your tool to slip > off from the wire from being in a hurry or from being careless, > crushing or bending the felt or something else. Ask me how I know > this? * > > * * > > *Sometimes moving the strings in the v-bar area over one direction > or the other will be enough to find a different place for the wire > on the v-bar. This may eliminate the v-var as the suspect or you > may discover that the v-bar was the problem all along. Burr's or > indents or rust in that area or corroded strings can causing a > buzzing sound in the v-bar area. Moving the string around into a > different position often eliminates that. * > > * * > > *Sometimes rattles are mistaken or described as buzzes or twany > sounds. Check the damper lever and parts to make sure the lead > and damper lever screws are not loose and rattling around inside. * > > * * > > *Check the screw that tightens the damper wire down too. Only > tighten it down good after you have re-aligned the damper for > proper seating to the string and after you have it lifting > properly with the sustaining pedal and key in comparison to the > other dampers around it. Once that is done, you may now hold the > damper head in place firmly with your fingers holding the wooden > damper head itself and tighten the screw until it is snug. I > never REEF on that little screw. More times than not, after > tightening that screw, it will cause the damper to twist slightly > so you may have to play with it a little bit until you get the > damper to stay put. * > > * * > > *After reading your 2nd post and description, I am tending to lean > more towards the possibility of what was described earlier by > another tech or two, having harder damper felt like on the face or > bottom of the damper felt or something possibly spilled on the > strings or dampers. Look over the whole damper carefully to make > sure things like excess glue is not the culprit. If it is, excess > glue can and will edge its way down the damper felt or stick out > enough to ever so slightly touch the damper next to it. Or, it > may have seeped down onto the damper felt causing it to harden > somewhat. If something was spilled, look inside of the action as > well to make sure it didn't get onto anything where it does not > belong like on the hammer. * > > * * > > *If the piano happens to have rusty or corroded wires, the damper > felt can absorb this making them hard, leaving little rusty string > wire grooves on the felt that rests on the strings. Letting the > key up will cause a zinging sound as the damper engages the felt. * > > * * > > *On some pianos, the damper guide rail screws either become loose > or were not tight enough to start out with. This being the case, > the whole damper guide rail can shift. Most often I have found > that it will shift to the right allowing more than one damper wire > to engage the neighboring wires on either side of the strings. * > > * * > > *Like I said, soooooooo many possibilities. * > > * * > > *Jer* > > * * > > * * > > * * > > *From:* pianotech-bounces at ptg.org > [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] *On Behalf Of *Tom Driscoll > *Sent:* Saturday, December 05, 2009 11:32 PM > *To:* pianotech at ptg.org > *Subject:* Re: [pianotech] Damper Issue??? > > > > Matthew , > > Tom Driscoll here, > > Comments interspersed below > > Ger, > > > > How could I troubleshoot the vbar, or the wire being loose in > the damper head such as you mentioned? > > > > v-bar--- lower tension a bit on the string and slide it side > to side on the bar. The wire will smooth out the cast iron > somewhat if it has a burr or a deep groove. Sometimes just > dropping tension on both tuning pins then tighten one so a > different part of the wire will bear on the vbar. I'm talking > maybe 1/32 " or so.I did this recently on a new chinese grand > that was jingling like crazy with success. > > > > It is the right string of the note that is being affected. > That is the side of the damper wire of that note. And, after > using my damper wire bending tool to bend/manipulate the wire, > it was unsuccessful. I am thinking it could be the bend of > the wire toward the top as it enters the head. Is there a way > to troubleshoot that issue as well? > > > > Lift the damper up and tap -wiggle -manipulate -compare to > its' neighbor, squeeze the wire into the head with your > parallel pliers. Pull the sucker out of the piano and see if > the problem goes away. > > Matthew ,success in trouble shooting problems isn't something > you develop. In my opinion it is a decision. > > There is nothing wrong with getting advice as we all give and > receive our share but the piano and the problem are in front > of you. Listen,touch, pull , tap ,swap ,spit,kick and cry if > need be. If you decide to find a problem, even if it is > unrepairable you are practically there. > > First call today was on an old Steinway upright (1874) > with a customer complaint of a dead bass. > > I showed them where the wrap changed from copper to iron > hence the thuds. Twisting and manipulating the worst offender > made no change . I can't fix it without string replacement > which is out of the budget for them but they now understand > the problem and we moved on to focus on the stuff that they > can afford to have me repair. > > Decide that you will find the problem and you most likely will . > > As I have quoted to you before from the great Yogi Berra-- > > "You can observe a lot by looking " > > > > Good luck. > > > > Thank you for your help! > > Matthew > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > avast! 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