Anything is possible but, I don't think so David. I talked with the manufacturer about it many times on the phone regarding it. I was trained by both my dad George Groot and Jerry Peterson both RPT's on how to properly install them. I installed them for both Peterson and for my dad and on my own as well which accounts for the fact that I was doing so many. I questioned the company about it and they admitted at the time that they were having "issues with them." However, they refused to go into detail about it. It was obvious to me... The plastic was weak at that point on these elbows that were breaking. I did ask them about whether or not they thought I was perhaps doing something wrong describing to them in detail how I was installing them and they said I was doing it correctly. I knew that already anyway. I was ordering about 10 to 20 sets at a time back then because I was doing so many of them. Maybe I wound up with most of the bad ones. I don't have an explanation about that. -----Original Message----- From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of David Ilvedson Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 6:47 PM To: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] Replacing plastic elbows Maybe you are doing something during the installation that is stressing the elbows...I've never heard of failure except by you...? David Ilvedson, RPT Pacifica, CA 94044 ----- Original message ---------------------------------------- From: "Gerald Groot" <tunerboy3 at comcast.net> To: pianotech at ptg.org Received: 12/8/2009 12:01:03 PM Subject: Re: [pianotech] Replacing plastic elbows >Seriously now.... Replacing them again within a month or within a year or >within a couple of years or so Ron, doesn't constitute in my ethics book, >re-charging the client a 2nd time when they we were told by the company and >then told the customer the same thing, that they would last for another 30 >years or longer. I've done these re-broken replacements for nothing. So, >you must mean, all the money I lost replacing them a 2nd and 3rd time, don't >you? >Mine broke right at the point where it snaps on again. Where the slot >engages the pin. One side or the other of the snap on just up and cracked >in half. I've talked to Vorgias about it A LOT back then. I'm talking 20-25 >+ years ago now. They admitted they were having "issues with them" thus, >the reason for the free replacement sets I received. However, they would >not give anything towards labor. I even had them breaking with a couple of >weeks before. >No speculation on Yat Lam Hong Ron. He's a member of my chapter and told me >himself that he replaces them with wooden ones. OVER RULED! You lose. The >fine is replacing 30 sets of elbows for free. >Oh dumb designs??? Oh booooyyyy! That's a new topic! >Jer >-----Original Message----- >From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf >Of Ron Nossaman >Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 2:52 PM >To: pianotech at ptg.org >Subject: Re: [pianotech] Replacing plastic elbows >Gerald Groot wrote: >> *I've replaced literally thousands and thousands probably tens of >> thousands of these stupid plastic elbows over the years. What a dumb >> design. * >Is that the only dumb design you've seen in pianos? And look >at all that money you made replacing them, then replacing them >again. >> *You mean to tell me that none of you people have experienced any of the >> replacment sets breaking again either from faulty material which there >> was a lot of during one period of time many years ago or, as they aged >> again? >In my case, never. Not one in 30+ years. Nor do I recall >anyone else mentioning any actual failures until now. I've >seen a lot of them that had to be cleaned up, and flashing >trimmed and such, and a few that came loose because someone >didn't clean them up and didn't get them snapped in right, but >not a single broken replacement after installation in the >thousands I've also seen. >> *Yat Lam Hong has been recommending using only wooden ones for 30 >> years. Perhaps for the same reason as me.* >Objection - blatant speculation! >Ron N > _____ >avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. >Virus Database (VPS): 091208-1, 12/08/2009 >Tested on: 12/8/2009 3:01:03 PM >avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 091208-1, 12/08/2009 Tested on: 12/8/2009 9:43:02 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2009 ALWIL Software.
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