Hi Dale, Thanks so much for the very helpful, detailed description of the process you use for removing and replacing back rail cloth and oil board. I think lots of times those with more experience take a lot for granted, and those of us who haven¹t done these things a million times spend (waste?) a lot of time cautiously trying to figure out the correct, or at least a good, harmless way of accomplishing fundamentally simple tasks. Sharing appreciated! Your warning comes too late, I¹m afraid; I¹m already in the deep end. My first convention (2005 North Carolina Regional), I attended one of Davenport¹s 8-hour action classes, and that did it -- ruined me. :) Next thing you know I was purchasing a gram scale from Bob Marinelli and on the phone with Wally Brooks asking about what hammers to put on a Kawai KG-2D ‹ like I knew what I was doing. Waaaaay over my head!!! But fun and rewarding work! Thank goodness for folks like you on the list, and my mentors Rick and John Butler, who regularly rush to my rescue. :) Paul -- Paul Milesi Registered Piano Technician (RPT) Piano Technicians Guild (202) 667-3136 (202) 246-3136 Cell E-mail: paul at pmpiano.com Website: http://www.pmpiano.com Address: 3000 7th Street NE, Apt. 204 Washington, DC 20017-1402 From: <erwinspiano at aol.com> Reply-To: <pianotech at ptg.org> Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 17:29:29 -0500 To: <pianotech at ptg.org> Subject: Re: [pianotech] Effects of replacing keytops without routing down keysticks Hi Paul Well we ruin the oil board all the time. Its not sacred, its just a shim. We often use strips of cardboard cut from flange boxes. To replace the back rail cloth we first measure the overall original felt height above the keybed. Then soak with Hot water & vinegar to soften the glue . Soak it good and let it sit for an hour then steam it off. Replace the felt,usually it is a very thick piece, Glue the front edge down,slip in the red felt & shims with just enough glue to tack it in place and stretch the felt a bit as the back edge is glued and clamped down. We use spring clamps and the Renner slats that come in the shank boxes as cauls. We use the oil board for under string shimming. Its hard and doesn't compress. It is available in sheets from Stwy. Not cheap but available. Next yer gonna wanna know what the action ratio is & what dimesnion parts to use....aaaand the hammmer weight etc. etc.. Swim quickly! yikes Dale -----Original Message----- From: Paul Milesi <paul at pmpiano.com> To: PTG Pianotech List <pianotech at ptg.org> Sent: Sun, Dec 13, 2009 10:32 am Subject: Re: [pianotech] Effects of replacing keytops without routing down keysticks Dale, Thanks very much for the intersting specs on ivory thickness relative to replacements. As just related in my reply to JD, I¹m thinking I may be OK, since key dimensions are very, very close to what they should be (see post to JD). I really appreciate the info on the red colored oil board under the backrail felt. I never knew that, since all the actions I¹ve reconditioned (as opposed to ³rebuilding² with new parts, etc.) have had cloth in good condition. I¹m glad I didn¹t steam off the old felt, as I was tempted to do (the glue seemed very reluctant to give), since I suspect that would have ruined the oil board, which is in very good shape. Does Steinway sell that, or can you get it someplace else? Paul -- Paul Milesi Registered Piano Technician (RPT) Piano Technicians Guild (202) 667-3136 (202) 246-3136 Cell E-mail: paul at pmpiano.com Website: http://www.pmpiano.com <http://www.pmpiano.com/> Address: 3000 7th Street NE, Apt. 204 Washington, DC 20017-1402 From: <erwinspiano at aol.com> Reply-To: <pianotech at ptg.org> Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 10:58:15 -0500 To: <pianotech at ptg.org> Subject: Re: [pianotech] Effects of replacing keytops without routing down keysticks Hi Paul Original Ivory is usually .035 to .040/1 mm so a .060 key/1.5 mm is only .020 thicker than the original Ivory. If the sharps are set up to 1/2"/12 mm and the key dip isn't excessive then really reg. is probably not a problem. As Long as the sharps aren't buried at full key travel. If you replace with thicker plastic of .090 it may be an issue. Also JD raises a practical solution but... If later the client wishes to install a set of pre-ban Ivory they are generally .060 from Warthers and I'm guessing you could order the Ivory any thickness you want to so as to address your key wood thickness concerns. Just a thought. BTW All vintage Steinway had the back rail glued on both sides. We still put it back that way. There is always an underlayment of red felt & sometimes a shim of the red colored oil board that Steinway has used forever. The back of the key always stops precisely with out bounce and the hammer line doesn't wander Dale -----Original Message----- From: Paul Milesi <paul at pmpiano.com> To: PTG Pianotech List <pianotech at ptg.org> Sent: Sat, Dec 12, 2009 11:51 pm Subject: [pianotech] Effects of replacing keytops without routing down keysticks OK, I think I¹m pushing my own envelope now, and really need some advice from the experts. I took on a 1915 Steinway M action for rebuilding (all new parts verdigris). Have had it in storage for a few months because customer was out of the country and wanted me to take it. Anyway, now that I¹m looking at it more closely, I realize that when the keys were recovered about 20 years ago with 1/16² plastic, no routing down of keysticks, but solid, clean job. Sharps appear to be the original ebony in very good shape. Keyframe felts are a mess. When I lifted backrail cloth, somebody shimmed it with a thin cardboard under the red felt and glued both sides of green down (isn¹t backside usually not glued?). I¹m guessing this was because the new keytops brought the keys too high for fallboard or hammer stop rail? However, my key height measurements show height about 3/32² lower than 2-19/32² spec. Dip is shallow, too. Relationship of sharp to natural is excellent as currently set up, however. I don¹t have the piano here, so can¹t check key height, etc. against case parts. :( With replacement keytops mentioned above, will I be able to make this action work after installing all new frame felts and new S&S hammers, shanks, flanges, wippens, let-off regulating buttons? Should I expect the worst, or might tolerances be wide enough that I can put a proper regulation on it? Are we ever lucky enough that when keytops have been replaced without routing keystick, the action still works? Thanks for any insight you can provide. Paul -- Paul Milesi, RPT Washington, DC (202) 667-3136 E-mail: paul at pmpiano.com Website: http://www.pmpiano.com <http://www.pmpiano.com/> <http://www.pmpiano.com/> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://ptg.org/pipermail/pianotech.php/attachments/20091213/9ab04cb5/attachment.htm>
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