[pianotech] How NOT to move a grand piano

[David Ilvedson]

Your missing my point and I don't think you ever been on a lift bed with a piano on a dolly...fixed or swivel... '-]   Swivel wheels on a lift is asking for trouble.   We never left the pianos on dollies in the truck.   Slid it on the lift bed and slid it into the truck.   You use the lift be to lift the piano to set the dolly and as I said we didn't dead lift from the floor to set the dolly.

David Ilvedson, RPT
Pacifica, CA  94044

----- Original message ----------------------------------------
From: "William Truitt" <surfdog at metrocast.net>
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Received: 4/10/2010 8:00:12 PM
Subject: Re: [pianotech] How NOT to move a grand piano


>You are missing my points.  A lift bed is flat enough to safely use swivel
>wheeled dollies safely and consistently with PROPERLY TRAINED PROFESSIONAL
>PIANO MOVERS.  It is done safely all the time every day by 99 plus percent
>of all professional piano movers - who do not need the perceived security of
>a straight wheeled dolly, who manage the instability easily with proper
>technique.  In fact, they often do this when the truck is sitting a little
>sidehill and/or downhill too. I've watched my movers do it this way for
>years, presenting no problems to them.   A properly set dolly will be
>balanced with either kind of dolly.  I think what you mean is leverage.  

>We should not mistake the sense of security that occasional piano technician
>movers might feel they need for the safest and best (or only) method for
>professional piano movers to use. 

>We can debate the kind of dolly to use, but I also detailed other examples
>of improper use of equipment that indicate that these guys were fully
>knowledgeable about the right tools and good technique. 

>Will


>-----Original Message-----
>From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf
>Of David Ilvedson
>Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2010 9:10 PM
>To: pianotech at ptg.org
>Subject: Re: [pianotech] How NOT to move a grand piano

>A properly set dolly offers little trouble turning a piano.   It's called
>balance.  Swivel wheeled dolly not only can go back forth but what ti go
>right or left depending gravity.   A lift bed is rarely flat.  

>David Ilvedson
>Pacifica, CA

>On Apr 10, 2010, at 5:15 PM, "William Truitt" <surfdog at metrocast.net> wrote:

>" Non-caster wheels offer more stability on an diagonal incline
>and offer a more secure transit in general."

>Please support your conclusion that non-caster wheels (straight line wheels)
>offer a more secure transit in general (than a pivoting wheel such as seen
>on a piano dolly)

>If you do not want to veer off a straight line, yes it would be more stable
>- it will resist moving in any other direction than the direction the wheels
>are aiming.  However, in order to execute a turn, you must lift two wheels
>off the ground and then frictionally force the remaining two to pivot.  Not
>easy with 12 to 1400 lbs bearing on those small surfaces.  Why would you
>want to lift more than you have to, when you simply can easily pivot the
>piano on all four wheels of the piano dolly, and in tight spaces too?
>That's what they are designed to do.   You don't have to lift one end of
>this beast to rotate the piano on the board end with a piano dolly, you
>simply rotate the piano in the direction desired by movers pushing at each
>end, being sure to keep the piano stable by holding the piano high and
>moving it from there.  Yes, there is an inherent instability to a piano
>dolly when on a slight incline, the wheels will want to straighten to follow
>the path of least resistance and roll downhill.  But that is what proper
>moving techniques are for to compensate for that, and what professional
>piano movers use all the time to move quickly and safely. And the lift gates
>do not angle much, or at all.  

>Where is the diagonal incline you are talking about in the pictures?

>In the context of all the movements required to roll the piano out onto the
>gate and pivot it until the piano is perpendicular to the truck, the fact
>that the wheels were not casters has everything to do with this not being a
>safe move (in totality).  

>I have never met a full time professional piano mover who used anything
>other than a pivot wheel piano dolly.  That's a lot of movers I've seen.  

>Will

>-----Original Message-----
>From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf
>Of Jon Page
>Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2010 5:13 PM
>To: pianotech at ptg.org
>Subject: Re: [pianotech] How NOT to move a grand piano

>Seems to me that they got in trouble by not rotating the piano
>perpendicular to the truck on the raised lift gate prior to lowering.
>They and ended up with it propped between the truck bed and gate.

>They needed to rotate the piano on the board end and that's
>probably when things got out of hand.

>The fact that the wheels were not casters has no bearing on it.
>Non-caster wheels offer more stability on an diagonal incline
>and offer a more secure transit in general.
>-- 

>Regards,

>Jon Page