Thanks Paul: As noted before, the issue of upgrades was forced upon me (and the other QB Payroll users) by Intuit because of our use of the Payroll software, which is a paid subscription that is updated yearly. I used to use QB Basic too, it is really all I needed, but Intuit forced me to upgrade to Pro when I started using the Payroll software. Literally the only feature I require from Pro is the ability to integrate with Payroll. I liked the earlier versions of QB better because they run faster. QB has become bloated pigware and it is buggy too. Now that I am going off their Payroll software, I could use Basic, but I don’t want to give them another dime. My bookkeeper has been doing her work for about 25 years fulltime as an employee elsewhere. I repeat her comment to me yesterday that she had traced my payroll input through the QB payroll structure, which she said I had input correctly in the right place with the right information when I did each payroll, yet it did not post properly in the system and zero out as it should. I got myself to do this correctly each time by creating two Excel spreadsheets that I manually input data in each time I do a payroll. One to record each payroll, and the other to calculate the monthly deposits for taxes due the IRS. That way I am on the straight and narrow with the IRS, no matter if QB misbehaves. And it is less of a magical mystery tour for my bookkeeper and accountant at the end of the year when they are trying to get everything to balance out. That’s not to say I don’t make errors, I do, but this method has virtually eliminated my errors of input into the Payroll system. Even if Payroll Mate builds an export link to QB, we decided the path of least resistance and least likelihood of error would be for me to make manual entries into the Journal in QB each time I did payroll. Sometimes you have to work hard to be simple. What’s an NFP? Will From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of PAULREVENKOJONES at aol.com Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 11:46 PM To: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] Quickbooks Payroll Rant Hey Will: On a slight counternote, we've been using Quickbooks 2000 Basic since 2000 (duh). We run four businesses on it, from two sole proprietorships, to our recent change from LLC to NFP for the School, and a business called Home Account which is our home accounting run as a business. We have never tried to do payroll of any sort, but have of course run 1099's. We have never had a problem with this program of any sort that wasn't due to our error in input. We have never felt compelled to upgrade or get caught in the invidious cycle of upgrades. I wish your experience had been ours. I'm sorry that you're having problems. P In a message dated 4/24/2010 9:18:55 P.M. Central Daylight Time, surfdog at metrocast.net writes: Uh Wim, you need to reread my post. I don’t do my taxes. I have never done my taxes. My accountant does my taxes, which are more complicated for corporate filing than sole prop. I’m smart enough to know that I am too stupid to do my taxes. So she does them, and I happily pay her to do them. My bookkeeper comes for 2 or 3 hours every quarter to help me do my quarterly reports, so that I stay on the straight and narrow, and she checks my books in QB and cleans up the mess and prints out the reports. However, I do my own payroll. Which is what payroll software is for. If I wanted to spend $60 to $100 a month to have a payroll service do payroll for one person, I would. But that’s what the software is for, to drop the cost down when it’s just little ol me. But my point in my post is that QB payroll isn’t a particularly good program, and Intuit has become a self-serving predatory bully that I want to get away from. And there are good alternatives. Will From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of tnrwim at aol.com Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 9:52 PM To: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] Quickbooks Payroll Rant William We work on pianos, We look with disdain on those customers who try to work on their own piano, and then call us to fix their problems. Looks like you're trying to do your own taxes, and then complain because you can't figure out how, even with costly programs. My suggestion is to compile the numbers, and let the professional figure out your taxes, and stop complaining to us about your problems. (big grin) I use Quicken for my check book. I enter all my checks per account, (advertising,. phone, etc). In January I give the total for each account to my accountant, and let him do his "majic". Easy, and rather painless. (Cheap, too, as my son is my accountant). Wim -----Original Message----- From: William Truitt <surfdog at metrocast.net> To: pianotech at ptg.org Sent: Sat, Apr 24, 2010 1:46 pm Subject: [pianotech] Quickbooks Payroll Rant I’ve been using Quickbooks since I incorporated my business in 1995 and hired employees. At one time, I had 3 employees and used a payroll service for payroll and taxes. That worked well for me when I had employees, but was too expensive to justify when I downsized and had only one employee – myself. So I went to payroll software, in this case Quickbooks Payroll because it integrated with Quickbooks and was the only game in town. I started out with Quickbooks Enhanced Payroll, which does your payroll and also will (in theory) input the data into the 941’s for your quarterlies, and the 940 at the end of the year. I was never able to get the program to properly reflect the figures from the payroll in the quarterly reports. My bookkeeper ended up gathering the numbers and filling out the forms manually. Some of the problems were due to me not always inputting the data into the program properly. But making corrections in the program that could then result in accurate quarterly reports proved to be a puzzle we were never able to solve. The online help was all but useless and certainly incomplete. There was and still is no written manual for the program available, either from Intuit or licensed third parties, although there are plenty of both for Quickbooks itself. That fact is astonishing when you consider that over a million people use the Payroll program. That seems like a deliberate strategy, designed to get you to sign up for paid monthly support, or give up and use their payroll service, also for a monthly fee. Which is to say that the program is deliberately half crippled so that they can extract money from you elsewhere. After a couple of years I gave up on Enhanced Payroll and went to Basic. The only difference between the 2 is that Basic does not populate the Quarterly and Yearly forms, which I could never get it to do anyway. Basic Payroll went up from $100 a year to $130 a year this past January. I found that irritating, because nothing about the program has changed in the 5 years I have been using it, except the tax tables. I could not see what justified a 30% increase. I have continued to have problems with the program. Today my bookkeeper Pat was showing me where, in this quarter for each payroll I did, there’s a place in a report where everything is supposed to zero out (happy time), but did not (unhappy time, you have to chase down an error). But she checked my data input, which was correct for all of my payrolls, so QB Payroll is not posting it properly. As usual, my trusty accountant fixes things at the end of year. By the way QB Payroll Basic costs $130 a year, and Enhanced Payroll costs $250 a year. For that extra $120, it will fill out the 941’s and some other forms for you. That’s the only difference. Those you still have to download from the IRS to populate. Enhanced Payroll allows you to do payroll for up to only 3 employees. More than that, and they want $350 a year. My guess is that the only difference between the 2 is the stop switch they put in Enhanced Payroll so you can’t do more than 3 employees and the cost You’re probably beginning to notice a pattern here. Periodically (about every 3 years) they force you to upgrade Quickbooks to the newest version. If you want to continue to use the Payroll Software, you have to upgrade. They have always done this on the calendar year end when you renew your subscription. Not this time. A month ago I got a notice from Intuit telling me that my payroll subscription would be canceled as of May 31 if I did not upgrade to Quickbooks Pro 2010 from QB Pro 2007 before then (for another $200.00) What is particularly odd about their timing is that my subscription is prepaid for the entire calendar year until 12/31/10, leaving 7 months yet to do. Oh yeh, they’ll refund you the balance I can think of no good motive on their part for them to do this at this time. They so conveniently make it hard for you, as you are not switching software at the end of the year or even at the end of the quarter. It’s a bad economy and they want to extort some money from their captive installed customer base whom they figure won’t see many other good options and just grumble and pay. All that is bad enough, except that my Compaq computer at the shop is 5 ½ years old and not powerful enough to run Quickbooks Pro 2010, which means I will have to spend $500 to $1000 to buy a new computer so that I can allow Intuit to rip me off. But I have a couple of programs on that computer from little guy piano software developers which won’t run on anything past XP, and aren’t likely to be upgraded to Windows 7 anytime soon, or at all. Or I could spend another $200 and get Windows 7 Professional that will may or may not run these XP programs. And oh, did I mention that quite a few people are having problems getting QB Pro 2010 to install on Windows 7? Overwhelmed with disgust, I started to search for other options for payroll. I usually don’t replace my computer until it dies or starts getting psychotic. I want to keep Old Paint plugging along for now. I am happy to report that I have found what appears to be a very attractive alternative, dear reader. There’s a program called Payroll Mate 2010 available for $99 per year subscription. I downloaded a free trial, and it’s a peppy little program that does payroll and nothing else. It is very logically laid out and simple because all it does is payroll. It will print paychecks, run payroll, do any reports you would need. The 940’s and 941’s and other forms you need are part of the program. The program will populate the forms, which are in the program already. It looks to be a very nice program that will meet my payroll needs and those of most small businesses. They are writing an export to Quickbooks feature, but I don’t know when that will be ready. They already have a Quicken.qif export feature I will have to make Journal entries into Quickbooks so that it reflects my payroll. But I pay myself biweekly, so I am only going to do that 26 times a year, and there’s not that much to do. The proof is in the pudding, but I can’t wait to get away from Quickbooks Payroll. It’s a WCPOS. I’ll use Quickbooks Pro 2007 until I don’t have a machine that will run it, or my accountant won’t allow me. I recognize that what I have shared won’t apply to most of you sole proprietor readers, but there are some of us out there who do payrolls, and this is aimed at them. For anyone who wants to look, you can find Payroll Mate 2010 at realtaxtools.com for anyone who wants to have a gander. Will Truitt -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://ptg.org/pipermail/pianotech.php/attachments/20100425/86a75fc8/attachment-0001.htm>
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