Patrick Here in the modest midwest, where prices are somewhat lower than either coast (reality), B's that are 'untouched', but nice condition are in the low to mid 30's, and B's w/ new action parts, pinblock and case refinishing start in the mid forties. I'm haven't seen a totally re-engineered B price. Dave Hulbert, RPT 414.315.7763 dave at hulbertpiano.com www.hulbertpiano.com ________________________________ From: "pianotech-request at ptg.org" <pianotech-request at ptg.org> To: pianotech at ptg.org Sent: Sat, January 16, 2010 3:20:23 PM Subject: pianotech Digest, Vol 15, Issue 191 Send pianotech mailing list submissions to pianotech at ptg.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/pianotech or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to pianotech-request at ptg.org You can reach the person managing the list at pianotech-owner at ptg.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of pianotech digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: [pianotech] age-old question of what to charge for almost nothing and running a business as a business (Gerald Groot) 2. Re: [pianotech] age-old question of what to charge for almost nothing and running a business as a business (David Love) 3. Re: age-old question of what to charge for almost nothing and run (paulrevenkojones at aol.com) 4. insurance evaluation on a Steinway B (J Patrick Draine) 5. Re: [pianotech] age-old question of what to charge for almost nothing andrunning a business as a business (Clark Sprague) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 14:27:46 -0500 From: "Gerald Groot" <tunerboy3 at comcast.net> To: <tcole at cruzio.com>, <pianotech at ptg.org> Subject: Re: [pianotech] age-old question of what to charge for almost nothing and running a business as a business Message-ID: <006701ca96e1$fca8cf50$f5fa6df0$@net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Thomas, Thanks for your input. I have given many local PTG classes on just that very thing, owning and operating a business. I have also brought in CPA's for different meetings. I've brought various business owners for their advice as well. It impacts me because I follow my own advice and the adivce of others that I have spoken with or classes that I have attended (not just PTG related) pertaining to operating a business along with reading a lot on the topic online at various websites. It's no skin off my nose but, if what I say can help someone else to better establish their business practices then that's a good thing, no? I put it here, because I know there are many new techs and others here that can learn, including myself. I'm not as stubborn as I appear, believe it or not... :) As I mentioned in another email, here is a topic that I started about 2 years ago by request. I had a lot of good input from others in there too. http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/647259/Re:%20Owning Jer -----Original Message----- From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Cole Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 1:20 PM To: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] age-old question of what to charge for almost nothing and running a business as a business Mr. Groot, You've been saying over and over what other technicians should do, but how does that impact you? If your business is good and growing, what skin is it off of your nose that people haven't acquired the business acumen you have? And why would you complain continually to this list when it might do some good to speak to the technicians you are referring to? Or maybe a better approach is to give some technical presentations to your local chapter with practical advice on how to improve one's income. There is a whole continuum of piano technicians ranging from part time hobbyists charging little or no money, to full-time technicians making a six figure income. If some of the hobbyists are complaining about a lack of income, they may have a problem with low self-esteem or maybe their work is substandard and with the help of some compassionate mentoring could improve their skills and self-esteem. Are you going to continue to focus on the problem or come up with some solutions? Tom Cole Gerald Groot wrote: > > ... The only thing that I AM VERY HARD LINED ON is that more piano technicians > need to run this business like a business or learn how. Yet, many do not > run it as such. These same people do not know how to run it as a business > or in my opinion, do not take it very seriously that it is a business. They > need to stick to the principal of charging when appropriate, which is, most > of the time. They should not be afraid to charge and especially, should not > apologize for doing so. As another poster mentioned, the owners of other > businesses will not allow their employee's to show up for free or to charge > less for obvious reasons. > _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 100116-0, 01/16/2010 Tested on: 1/16/2010 2:27:46 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2010 ALWIL Software. ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 12:06:40 -0800 From: "David Love" <davidlovepianos at comcast.net> To: <pianotech at ptg.org> Subject: Re: [pianotech] age-old question of what to charge for almost nothing and running a business as a business Message-ID: <004801ca96e7$6b18a730$4149f590$@net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" This isn't aimed at anyone in particular or any specific previous remarks so please no one respond as if I'm attacking them or criticizing their approach, though of course you're welcome to comment. I know this has gone on too long but the question of what is important for a successful business is important especially these days. There's been a bit of sniping in the discussion but hey, get over it. The really germane issue in all of this, if I may distill it down, is where the emphasis lies in your business approach. My view is that yes of course it's important to have skills and to have self esteem and project confidence and not be afraid to charge and do your proper accounting and tax plan and clean your shop and your shoes and tuck in your shirt yada yada yada. But at the heart of any successful business, especially in a repeat service business such as ours, is your ability to develop and maintain relationships with your customers. Ultimately, what sticks with customers are the feelings left behind from your interaction with them. Not specifically what was said, how much they paid, whether they got a discount or not, though these things might be contributing factors. That's why often when someone complains about your price and you end up conceding and giving them a discount you never hear from them again. The discount isn't what they remember. What they remember is how they felt from the interaction and even though they got a discount they leave with the feeling of being ripped off or had they not pressed the issue they would have paid more than was necessary. So in each situation you have to make a decision as to how best to develop that interaction so that it leads to a positive experience for the customer. There are no hard and fast rules for what that means because each person is different and so the criteria will vary. The smartest business people are not those that stick rigidly to a format for everything but those who recognize the nuances that make those relationships work and are able to adapt accordingly. If that means extracting a pencil for free (that's where this all started) so that you can engage the customer in some dialogue that may mean future work, well you have to decide. It may or may not be the right solution in that particular case but you need to go in with an open mind and view the situation as an opportunity. David Love www.davidlovepianos.com ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 15:25:00 EST From: paulrevenkojones at aol.com To: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] age-old question of what to charge for almost nothing and run Message-ID: <980d.7c92edd2.38837a9c at aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" As I said before, David, it's a karmic world, and you have done a fine job of expanding on the idea. Paul In a message dated 1/16/2010 2:06:49 P.M. Central Standard Time, davidlovepianos at comcast.net writes: This isn't aimed at anyone in particular or any specific previous remarks so please no one respond as if I'm attacking them or criticizing their approach, though of course you're welcome to comment. I know this has gone on too long but the question of what is important for a successful business is important especially these days. There's been a bit of sniping in the discussion but hey, get over it. The really germane issue in all of this, if I may distill it down, is where the emphasis lies in your business approach. My view is that yes of course it's important to have skills and to have self esteem and project confidence and not be afraid to charge and do your proper accounting and tax plan and clean your shop and your shoes and tuck in your shirt yada yada yada. But at the heart of any successful business, especially in a repeat service business such as ours, is your ability to develop and maintain relationships with your customers. Ultimately, what sticks with customers are the feelings left behind from your interaction with them. Not specifically what was said, how much they paid, whether they got a discount or not, though these things might be contributing factors. That's why often when someone complains about your price and you end up conceding and giving them a discount you never hear from them again. The discount isn't what they remember. What they remember is how they felt from the interaction and even though they got a discount they leave with the feeling of being ripped off or had they not pressed the issue they would have paid more than was necessary. So in each situation you have to make a decision as to how best to develop that interaction so that it leads to a positive experience for the customer. There are no hard and fast rules for what that means because each person is different and so the criteria will vary. The smartest business people are not those that stick rigidly to a format for everything but those who recognize the nuances that make those relationships work and are able to adapt accordingly. If that means extracting a pencil for free (that's where this all started) so that you can engage the customer in some dialogue that may mean future work, well you have to decide. It may or may not be the right solution in that particular case but you need to go in with an open mind and view the situation as an opportunity. David Love www.davidlovepianos.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://ptg.org/pipermail/pianotech.php/attachments/20100116/c1ca779c/attachment-0001.htm> ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 16:07:47 -0500 From: J Patrick Draine <jpdraine at gmail.com> To: Pianotech List <pianotech at ptg.org> Subject: [pianotech] insurance evaluation on a Steinway B Message-ID: <fdf610641001161307x336a8305idab1d57c4b0af9bc at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi, I'm putting together an appraisal for customer who is heading out to retire in CA after a career of teaching piano in universities. She's bringing along her 1962 ebony Steinway B, and I'm eager for any input on placing a proper value on her instrument. I have done some background research -- S&S has an MSRP of $81,200 (Larry Fine has $79,180 as the "street price"). So this should be the replacement price, if she elects to buy that level of coverage. The piano was well maintained (she also had an L, and pianos in the university's teaching studio), but 48 years does take its toll too (brassy tone, but still quite enjoyable as is). What do you see in prices for Bs these days? I have done some price comparisons from a large sampling from the pianomart.com site, but these are "asking prices", not actual sales prices. For the moment I won't post those numbers. For those of you selling "quality used", as well as your restored (to totally re-engineered), Steinway Bs, your input and advice would be greatly appreciated! Patrick Draine Billerica, MA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://ptg.org/pipermail/pianotech.php/attachments/20100116/69d4c46f/attachment-0001.htm> ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 16:02:23 -0500 From: "Clark Sprague" <CSPRAGUE4 at woh.rr.com> To: <pianotech at ptg.org> Subject: Re: [pianotech] age-old question of what to charge for almost nothing andrunning a business as a business Message-ID: <46E6B98877D546E78004417AA6DEC552 at Shiny> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original " But at the heart of any successful business, especially in a repeat service business such as ours, is your ability to develop and maintain relationships with your customers." David Love I know this to be true from personal experience. When the store I worked for 7 years full time) closed in 2006, I received the full clientele list. I contacted all those people in that first 6 months of being on my own. As things progressed, I wanted my business to be OUR business (meaning mine and my wife's), so I asked her to keep the contacts going for me. As time passed, my wife has been overburdened with the care of my mother, our kids, playing 2 church jobs , etc, etc. She doesn't have enough time in the day to do it all, and I stubbornly held to the notion that this was her part in our business, and she was failing. STUPID. Add to that the recession, and we have a client base that is in three distinct parts: one group that has gone so long since I have seen them that they are basically lost; one group that has remained faithful (a small group); and another group in the middle that I hear from occasionally. This is the biggest group. My gross has dropped by about 50% in the 2 1/2 years since I was forced to go it on my own. The point of this diatribe is that David is soooo right when he says what I pasted at the first of this post. This business is all about the relationships we maintain with the people we encounter. I need to take business classes and learn more about how to run my business more effectively. I wonder how many of the people reading this list could tell similar tales? Clark A. Sprague, RPT csprague4 at woh.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Love" <davidlovepianos at comcast.net> To: <pianotech at ptg.org> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 3:06 PM Subject: Re: [pianotech]age-old question of what to charge for almost nothing andrunning a business as a business > This isn't aimed at anyone in particular or any specific previous remarks > so > please no one respond as if I'm attacking them or criticizing their > approach, though of course you're welcome to comment. I know this has > gone > on too long but the question of what is important for a successful > business > is important especially these days. There's been a bit of sniping in the > discussion but hey, get over it. The really germane issue in all of this, > if I may distill it down, is where the emphasis lies in your business > approach. My view is that yes of course it's important to have skills and > to have self esteem and project confidence and not be afraid to charge and > do your proper accounting and tax plan and clean your shop and your shoes > and tuck in your shirt yada yada yada. But at the heart of any successful > business, especially in a repeat service business such as ours, is your > ability to develop and maintain relationships with your customers. > Ultimately, what sticks with customers are the feelings left behind from > your interaction with them. Not specifically what was said, how much they > paid, whether they got a discount or not, though these things might be > contributing factors. That's why often when someone complains about your > price and you end up conceding and giving them a discount you never hear > from them again. The discount isn't what they remember. What they > remember > is how they felt from the interaction and even though they got a discount > they leave with the feeling of being ripped off or had they not pressed > the > issue they would have paid more than was necessary. So in each situation > you have to make a decision as to how best to develop that interaction so > that it leads to a positive experience for the customer. There are no > hard > and fast rules for what that means because each person is different and so > the criteria will vary. The smartest business people are not those that > stick rigidly to a format for everything but those who recognize the > nuances > that make those relationships work and are able to adapt accordingly. If > that means extracting a pencil for free (that's where this all started) so > that you can engage the customer in some dialogue that may mean future > work, > well you have to decide. It may or may not be the right solution in that > particular case but you need to go in with an open mind and view the > situation as an opportunity. > > David Love > www.davidlovepianos.com > > > ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ pianotech mailing list pianotech at ptg.org http://ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/pianotech End of pianotech Digest, Vol 15, Issue 191 ****************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://ptg.org/pipermail/pianotech.php/attachments/20100116/b7ff21cd/attachment-0001.htm>
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