Oh, David, your argument here is spurious. What I am saying is... use the technology, but don't lose the prior skills. Write, but don't forget to think and use your memory. Use the ETD, but don't forget how to listen. Watch TV, but remember how to enjoy the passage of time without it. Drive, but don't forget the joy of walking. Those who are staunch ETD advocates, experiment (even briefly) with tuning aurally and observe what you learn about yourself and your craft. Those who are staunch aural tuners, try using an ETD and see what it can teach you. I'm not saying that using an ETD will lead to the inability to hear, but my paraphrase suggests that there are some who DO take that position to that extreme, just as there are people on the aural side who will argue that no matter how sophisticated the machine, it will still produce a mechanical tuning. Neither extreme holds true, but holding both sides at once -- the hybrid position -- is where the merit lies. My graphic displays of temperaments are in no way relevant to this. I am adding a visual understanding that enables a quick understanding that few can "get" by looking at a list of numbers. (And the original inspiration for my charts was the one-pager done by Ed Foote, by the way.) Not one person has ever thought these charts were intended as a substitute for hearing. On the contrary, they have encouraged many to experiment with the historical temperaments to expand the range of their listening. But you know this. On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 7:52 AM, David Love <davidlovepianos at comcast.net>wrote: > Just because it's subject to this type of argument doesn't mean that the > argument has any merit. The piano world is replete with myths (as we all > know). That ETD's lead to the inability to hear or a diminished capacity > to > hear is yet another one. But given this argument, Jason, are you not > concerned that posting a graphic display of historic temperaments will > cause > people to rely on that in order to discern the differences and take away > their ability to hear them? Or is it more the case that your graphic > display provides a framework with which they can structure their listening > and discernment of the subtle differences in a more focused and expedient > way? There is no cure for laziness or inattention and I've heard many > aural > and ETD tunings that bear the marks of those qualities. But to suggest > that > one method has a greater claim in that is a fallacy of logic. > > > David Love > www.davidlovepianos.com > > > > > And here's my paraphrase: > > "...But when they came to the ETD, Theuth said: 'O King, here is > something > that, once learned, will make the tuners wiser and will improve their > tunings; I have discovered a potion for temperament, speed, and accuracy.' > Thamus, however, replied: 'O most expert Theuth, one man can give birth to > the elements of an art, but only another can judge how they can benefit or > harm those who will use them. And now, since you are the father of the ETD, > your affection for it has made you describe its effects as the opposite of > what they really are. In fact, it will introduce loss of accurate hearing > into the soul of those who learn it: they will not practice using their > ears > because they will put their trust in the display, which is external and > depends on machine programming, instead of trying to hear the actual > intervals from the inside, completely on their own. You have not discovered > a potion for temperament, speed, and accuracy, but for reading a display; > you provide your students with the appearance of tuning, not with its > reality. Your invention will enable them to tune many pianos without really > hearing them, and they will imagine that they have become good tuners while > for the most part they will know nothing about the true art of tuning. And > they will be difficult to get along with, since they will merely appear to > be wise instead of really being so.' > > > > My point? Every technological advance is subject to this kind of > argument. > Every advance does subtract from the human experience, and at the very same > time, every advance also benefits us in new ways. We drive in cars and > forget how to walk. We watch TV and forget how to enjoy the passage of > time. > We email and forget how to engage in face-to-face conversation. In every > case we could get into pitched battles, arguments available on both sides. > Yet each side can benefit so much by incorporating the other's viewpoint. > > > > Judge for yourself which of the voices above are open to both sides, and > which are entrenched. > > > > Jason > > > > <snip> > > -- > > | || ||| || ||| || ||| || ||| || ||| || ||| || ||| > > jason's cell 425 830 1561 > > | || ||| || ||| || ||| || ||| || ||| || ||| || ||| > > > > -- | || ||| || ||| || ||| || ||| || ||| || ||| || ||| jason's cell 425 830 1561 | || ||| || ||| || ||| || ||| || ||| || ||| || ||| -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://ptg.org/pipermail/pianotech.php/attachments/20110131/fc784a56/attachment-0001.htm>
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