William, Precisely what I was talking about. It is the little things that make up the "whole" of a piano "sound", IMO. Cumulatively, it can be good or bad or...??? Some good examples of little things changing the tone: 1. Take well rgulated/tuned/voiced N.Y. Steinway and take the hammer off of A 49, (that has a round hammer shank), and replace the Shank/Flangewith a Hamburg/Renner and glue the hammer onto that assembly. Allow the glue, (Hide Glue, of course), to set up properly. Re-regulate and play it. The tone on that note is completely different!! Or...2 Try installing a brass rod where there is a steel rod in an olde European upright, at the Nut. The tone Changes Markedly, even tho all other things are the same. Why? because we are using a different material. Same situation only change the termination to wood! Whoa! Major tonal difference! The little things, as a group make up what IS the piano. Just my thoughts on the matter. Glad you have had similar experiences.<G> Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: Piano Boutique To: joegarrett at earthlink.net;pianotech at ptg.org Sent: 7/26/2011 6:53:36 PM Subject: Re: [pianotech] Chickering Grand Hammer Flanges? Joe, I think that sound travels threw plastic, differently than it does threw wood. I also think that the feel of playing aluminum is different than wood. Have you ever heard a definite thunk when playing a Yamaha grand. there is a metal support under the key bed that produces the sound. I don't like it and in fact, I like the absents of sound when playing a Steinway with a wood plank. As you would say: thank you very much. Willy ----- Original Message ----- From: Joseph Garrett To: Mark S Burgett ; pianotech Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 8:41 PM Subject: Re: [pianotech] Chickering Grand Hammer Flanges? Mark, Yes, I have played two M& Hs, in a side by side test, at Classic Piano, in Portland. I definately did not like the feel of the Plastic. Also, I did not like the tone produced. It must just be me.<G> (Or...it could just have been those two pianos) I'm a wood worker. It's what I do. Plastic parts, no matter how well crafted, do not appeal to me. I happen to like the sound of pianos with wood parts. I do not like pianos with aluminum rails and/or plastic parts. That includes the difference between the new Kawaii s and the old ones. Two different entities! Truly not intended to be insulting or anything. I applaud the effort you have made in this regard. It is needed, I suppose, for those that like to change the basic character of the instruments they work onyour stuff is just the ticket. It's not to say that that's a bad thing, it's just not my thing. I try to bring out the intention of the designer of the piano, in my rebuilds. Your parts do not do that, IMO.<G> I perceive that over the past 40 years, pianos have transitioned into a harsh unmusical entity. I believe it is an evolutionary process that is prompted from modern ears becoming deaf at earlier years. Also, it is a never ending process to try and get more out of a given piano. Some of the Tonal Perception is due to the poor EQing of modern recordings of pianos. The fact is that pianos will only produce so much of a decible level and that it has reached that! Any further attempt is simply producing more "noise" IMO. Granted, wooden action problems have their problems. I know how to work with them. Plastic is not a repairable product. It is a "replaceable' product. All goes along with our "throw away/disposable" societal mindset. Regards, Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark S Burgett To: joegarrett at earthlink.net;pianotech at ptg.org Sent: 7/26/2011 3:23:34 PM Subject: RE: [pianotech] Chickering Grand Hammer Flanges? Hi Joe, I guess you haven’t played a piano with the WNG action parts. They actually sound, play better and the pianist has more control that the wooden action parts. Anyway, I wanted to share some pictures from Randy Mangus that rebuilt a Chickering with our parts with some creativity. We didn’t have the correct Rep. flange then but will soon in our stock. Mark From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Joseph Garrett Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 1:21 PM To: J Patrick Draine; pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] Chickering Grand Hammer Flanges? Patrick, Not no, H%$# NO!<G> First of all, I've redesigned many actions for Chickerings Using Pratt Read and Renner parts. There are ways of putting a new action in a piano. Plastic, IMSO, is not it. It's too stiff and clunky for my likes. But, thanks for the suggestion.<G> I have all of the W.N.& G. action parts kit. I've done the numbers, etc.Just didn't add up for this olde duffer.<G> My point to this exercise is to see if I can save the customer some big bucks and have the piano play as it was originally designed. (which I consider to be correct for the instrument, as this is a pre-Aeolian thang.<G>) Regards, Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: J Patrick Draine To: joegarrett at earthlink.net;pianotech at ptg.org Sent: 7/26/2011 8:44:30 AM Subject: Re: [pianotech] Chickering Grand Hammer Flanges? Joe, I don't have answers to your annealing question but you might consider calling Jude Reveley for information on how he redesigned a couple Chickering actions: WN&G action rail, WN&G action parts, back action, and a new and redesigned keyboard. Probably more than you were planning on, but perhaps worth considering. If it's the same model Jude has done all the design work on maybe you could work out a deal . . . Patrick Draine Jude's neighbor, here in cool Billerica On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 1:04 AM, Joseph Garrett <joegarrett at earthlink.net> wrote: Anyone have an idea the difference of expansion rates of Steel and Brass. I'm into a Chickering Grand and am planning on trying to anneal them puppies. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://www.moypiano.com/ptg/pianotech.php/attachments/20110726/6a7270f0/attachment-0001.htm>
This PTG archive page provided courtesy of Moy Piano Service, LLC