Joseph, You seem to presume that we have trouble removing spinet actions and find it..."distasteful". I find this an offensive leap. I didn't get that from the messages I read. We all do things a little differently and sharing those different techniques is one of the pleasures of this list. You don't need to make it sound like we are inept. Some may and some may not need practice with that skill. There are many reasons to pull spinet actions but why turn a "one trip" job into a "two trip" job if nothing is "clicking"? As I said in my original post, it's not uncomfortable for me to sit cross-legged on the floor in front of the piano and do this job. I'll bet I'm shorter then you. I know I'm shorter than Wim and many others on this list! Just seemed kind of "snarkey", Joseph. Laura On Nov 23, 2012, at 11:33 AM, Joseph Giandalone wrote: > > Guys, > > Don't understand the extreme reluctance to remove the action for elbow job. The advantages are many: you get to tighten the wip flange screws, (and the hammer flange screws, (if they were not accssible with the action in place), the traverse rod hinges (and rebush or lubricate these) do any needed repairs to dampers, bridge or strings, repair or replace bad flanges if nec, clean behind strings on treble bridge, or do a spoon reg "on the bench" if needed, and in addition you don't need to worry that if you should happen to split one of those wippen "wings" you're gonna have to remove the action anyway, to repair it. Removing the action changes an awkward, body-killing, worrisome job into a pretty comfortable one that you can do at the dining room table with the action on a cradle. > > Some of these "extras" that I mention (e.g. tightening wip flange screws) take mere minutes and can make a huge difference to the player. (Especially true in swingy climates like here in N.Eng.) (i.e. they get wickid loose.) > > If removing a spinet action is SO distasteful to you, just practice a bit for Pete's sake. If you're concerned about spending your time in the most useful way (for the customer who is paying for it) that is yet another reason to go this way – I can't imagine how it could take any more time than doing it with the action in place, tilter or no. > > That said, I concur – don't get to do these anymore – they've most either been done or the piano has gone back to that musty ncorner of Hell that it was spawned in. > > Joseph > > p.s. If there are any tiny, three-handed elves among you plying this trade: perhaps this "advice " may not apply, we'd need to go over it point-by-point. > > > On Nov 23, 2012, at 12:40 AM, David Love wrote: > >> Use a tilter, rock the piano back on a 45 degree angle and change the elbows without removing the action or straining your back. Quite simple generally. >> >> David Love >> www.davidlovepianos.com >> 415.407.8320 >> >> >> >> Jerry Groot <tunerboy3 at comcast.net> wrote: >> >> Plus, like many businesses other than ours does, it should include a service call to get to the home “twice.” Once to remove the action, once to return it. Plus, the time it takes to remove and install it, removing keys etc., if that is required. I agree with Terry. $500 for all of that is to inexpensive. Spinet or not. J >> >> >> >> Jer >> >> >> >> From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of tnrwim at aol.com >> Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2012 11:33 PM >> To: pianotech at ptg.org >> Subject: Re: [pianotech] elbows >> >> >> >> Terry. >> >> >> >> It only takes me about 5 hours to do the work. It was at least 6 years ago since I did this. But even if I had to do it today, I would probably charge the same. Don't forget, that does not include tuning >> >> >> >> Wim >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> >> On Nov 22, 2012, at 5:21 PM, Terry Farrell <mfarrel2 at tampabay.rr.com> wrote: >> >> $500? Would you (or anyone else) really remove a spinet action and take it back to your shop, remove all the keys and vacuum, replace a full set of elbows (wood ones at that), tighten all action screws, file/shape hammers, make a second trip to the home of the piano, install spinet action, re-install keys and do a complete action regulation? >> >> >> >> WOW, that's a deal! For the piano owner. >> >> >> >> That's kookey. >> >> >> >> If I were to do that scope of work, I'd easily double that fee (mid-west prices). And most any spinet owner would be ill-advised to put that much $$ into their little spinet. >> >> >> >> Terry Farrell >> >> >> >> >> >> On Nov 22, 2012, at 4:15 PM, John Ross wrote: >> >> >> >> >> Wim, >> >> I wonder if $500 invested in an old spinet makes economic sense? >> >> I feel that making the piano operable for the least money is in the best interests of the customer. >> >> John Ross >> >> Windsor, Nova Scotia >> >> On 2012-11-22, at 3:31 PM, tnrwim at aol.com wrote: >> >> >> >> >> I know a lot of you replace the old plastic elbows with the new snap ons. And, like Laura, even do this with the action in the piano. In regard to the latter, because of my girth, I find it very uncomfortable doing anything on a drop action, much less replacing all the elbows. >> >> >> >> As far as the snap ons, although they are much better quality plastic than the old type, they are still plastic. Somehow I just can't justify replacing plastic with plastic. So put on wood elbows. But by putting on wood elbows, I do more than just replace those parts. >> >> >> >> I remove the action. By doing that I also have to remove the keys. When those are removed, it also gives me a chance to vacuum under the keys, and I often vacuum the bottom of the piano. I take the action home, and do all the work on my bench, which is well lit, and I have all my tools and supplies at hand. >> >> >> >> Before I install all the elbows, i first tighten all the screws and file the hammers. The procedure for replacing the elbows is as follows. I remove as many of the old plastic elbows from the wippens with needle nose pliers. I then remove all the center pins. For putting on the wood elbows, I put the elbow in a vise, chuck the wire in a drill, and, zip, screw it on. If the button is too high, I turn it down a little. After all the elbows are on the lifter wires, I install the elbows back on the wips. >> >> >> >> With the new elbows in place, I put the action back in the piano*, install the keys and regulate. *Even if you strap the wires to the action, to prevent the sticker wires from getting jammed between the balance rail pins, I drape newspapers of the key bed. Lay the stickers on the newspaper, and the action will slip right in. >> >> >> >> As I said, replacing elbows is more then just replacing elbows. It's a complete action and piano cleaning and regulation job, for which I charge around $500, plus tuning. And most of the time, the piano also requires a pitch raise. When you're done, the piano not only sounds great, but plays great, too. And the customer will be very happy with the end result. >> >> >> >> Wim >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Marshall Gisondi <pianotune05 at hotmail.com> >> To: pianotech <pianotech at ptg.org> >> Sent: Thu, Nov 22, 2012 7:28 am >> Subject: [pianotech] elbows >> >> HI Everyone, >> Wnen it comes to elbows, I've never heard of using a heat source. I just take plyers and crunch crunch crunch :-) At the school we were taought to take a vice grip and place it on the lifter wire on the point where the original elbow was so we knew how far to screw on the replacement plastic ones if we used them. I have and they do well. I know some believe in the wood ones which are harder to install. Like one tech told me out here, the plastic replacemetns will out live me and the customer. Have any of you done an elbow job in the customers home without taking the action out? >> Marshall >> 215-510-9400 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://www.moypiano.com/ptg/pianotech.php/attachments/20121123/c933b8ca/attachment.htm>
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