[pianotech] Pitch Raising

[Richard W. Bushey]

Clarification on a paragraph I just sent:

The instructions that came with my SAT III for entering a tuning "manually"
helped alot, but I wasn't sure what the SAT column referred to on Joe's 
list.
They looked like partials, but the column heading threw me off. It is in 
fact
referring to the Partial Note that the SAT is tuning the Piano Note to.  So,
following the SAT instructions for entering them works great.

Richard W. Bushey
Richard's Piano Service
www.RichardsPianoService.com
Rbushey at RichardsPianoService.com
573-765-9903
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Richard W. Bushey" <rbushey4 at embarqmail.com>
To: <pianotech at ptg.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 10:33 PM
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Pitch Raising


> Terry,
>
> If your confusion is regarding programming the SAT, I was a little 
> confused at first as well when I saw the chart as to how to input the 
> info. into the SAT (I have SAT III).
>
> The instructions for inputing a tuning manually got me going but I wasn't 
> sure what the SAT column meant. It is in fact referring to the Partial 
> Note the SAT is tuning the piano note to.
>
> I'm not here to insult anyone's intelligence as there are far brighter 
> minds on this forum than I, however, if it helps someone, then great.
>
> I had the PTG Journal DVD and searched Dec. 1999 for the article 
> "Electronically Enhanced Tuning" by Joe Garrett to get the list of offsets 
> for his pitch raising method.
>
> The procedure is as follows, for those interested (or was confused as I 
> was):
>
> 1) Turn SAT on.
> 2) Press Tune button.
> 3) Pick a page that you want to store Joe's, or other, pitch raise tuning 
> on.  I use page one for my temporary use that I can rewrite over daily 
> when needed for tunings I don't need to save permantly.  I placed Joe's 
> pitch raise tuning on page two.
>
> Now the fun begins. Took me about 1/2 hr. or so to input all the numbers 
> manually.
>
> 4) Select the Piano Note and Octave you want to program (We'll start at 
> A0), just like you would do if you were getting ready to tune the note.
>
> NOTE: Take a minute and get very familiar with these two buttons and what 
> they show. If you press the Mem button only, you will see the Piano 
> Note/Octave on the left screen and the Page Number on the right screen. 
> When going through this process, any time you see the page number in the 
> right screen, you are seeing the Piano Note and if you make changes to the 
> Note/Octave...you are actually changing which Piano Note/Octave you are 
> programing.  If you press just the Tune button, it will show the Partial 
> Note/Octave on the left screen (this is the middle column on Joe's list) 
> that the SAT is tuning the Piano Note to (your A0 in this case), and on 
> the right screen will be the offset number that you will change to match 
> Joe's list.  It can get confusing if you're not careful because the 
> partial notes and piano notes look the same.....but the indicator of which 
> is which is what you see in the right hand screen.
>
> 5) Press the Tune button to show the Partial Note/Octave and Offset 
> numbers (for A0 you should see E3 and some offset number that you will be 
> changing. Go ahead and change the Offset number to match the one on the 
> list (for A0, the partial is E3 and the offset is -35.0). For some of the 
> notes, the partials will be already be correct from whatever tuning was 
> previously stored in that location and you won't have to change it, but be 
> sure to check to see that it is in fact correct. If it's not, change the 
> note or octave to match the one in the center column on Joe's list (E3 
> and -35.0).
>
> 6) Up to this point you have really done only 3 things: selected a note 
> (A0), pressed Tune button to show Partial (E3) and Offset (ex: -10.5), 
> changed Partial (E3) and Offset (changed to -35.0) to match the list. 
> Now, SAVE your work by holding the Shift and pressing the Mem button.
>
> 7) To check your work, press Mem to view current Piano Note, and page 
> number.  Press Tune to view the Partial (SAT note, center column of list) 
> and the Offset number.  If correct, proceed to next note. If something is 
> incorrect, change it, save it, and recheck it before going on.
>
> 8) When all looks good, press the note up button to select next note and 
> repeat steps 4-8 for all 88 keys.
>
>
> 9) When finished saving the 88th note, you're finished and can shut your 
> SAT off, move to a different page, or go try a pitch raise!
>
> That's about it.  It looks real tedious, but once you get the hang of what 
> does what, it will go much quicker.
>
>
> I'm looking forward to trying this procedure out sometime and see how it 
> goes.
>
> Thanks Joe!
>
>
> Richard W. Bushey
> Richard's Piano Service
> www.RichardsPianoService.com
> Rbushey at RichardsPianoService.com
> 573-765-9903
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Terry Farrell" <mfarrel2 at tampabay.rr.com>
> To: <joegarrett at earthlink.net>; <pianotech at ptg.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 11:10 AM
> Subject: Re: [pianotech] Pitch Raising
>
>
> Hi Joe,
>
> I have your article and studied it a good fair bit a few years back. My 
> general conclusion was that it was so complicated that I could pitch raise 
> 1,000 pianos with my teeth much faster and with much less pain that to 
> decipher your approach. I'm not criticizing your method at all - how could 
> I, I still don't have a clue what it is. And I think you are very generous 
> to offer your thoughts and experience on the subject. But I'm really a 
> reasonably smart person and I absolutely had no idea what to do with any 
> of the information given in your method.
>
> I have little doubt that you, the author, understand it and get good 
> results with it. It simply did not appear user friendly to me at all.
>
> I get good results with the very easy method I employ.  And I really don't 
> think that Paul and I were battling. Were you battling me Paul? I hope 
> you're not upset that I won!  ;-)
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Terry Farrell
>
> On Oct 31, 2012, at 11:46 AM, Joseph Garrett wrote:
>
>> Terry and Paul battled away saying:
>> "
>>> Which Sanderson do you use? With the SAT3 you only have the option of 
>>> 25%
>> or 33(?)%.
>>
>> I use the Sanderson pitch raising method - leapfrogging two mutes, 
>> unisons
>> as I go, A0 to C88. I do not use an AccuTuner. I do use Verituner for
>> iphone.
>>
>>> In most pianos, for smaller pitch raises I hardly overpull the bass at
>> all. If it's a big PR (e.g. 40c-50c or more) even then 25% is too much in
>> the bass.
>>
>> I agree that 25% would be too much. That's why I've settled on about 16%.
>>
>>> I find that the 33% overpull in the top two octaves or so is oftentimes
>> not enough. In order to compensate for these, I usually compensate on the
>> "Msr" by going more flat (treble) or less flat (bass) before having it
>> calculate the overpull. I re-"Msr" every C#, F, and A (M3's)
>>
>> I agree that 33% would often be too little overpull, which is why I have
>> settled on about 38%.
>>
>>> I strip mute, A0 - C8, unisons (center, previous note right, current 
>>> note
>> left, next note center, etc.) as I go... someday I'll get brave and try a
>> single mute. Maybe.
>>
>> I effectively do the same thing, only with two mutes.
>>
>>> I've always been tempted to investigate this, but does it really 
>>> overpull
>> that much at the very top? In other words, if I overpull C8 by 33%, 
>> what's
>> to pull it flat, besides the other two C8 strings? Or are the other two
>> strings enough to drag it back down?
>>
>> No, of course not. I usually decrease the overpull on the last few notes.
>> Let's say I'm doing a 55-cent pitch raise - the 38% overpull should be
>> about 20 cents. I would overpull A8 and all notes below about 20 cents. I
>> would likely aim for 15 cent overpull on A#8, 10 cent overpull on B8 and
>> only 5 cent overpull on C8. I also find that I'll decrease the calculated
>> overpull on the last note or two in the upper tenor and bass. In the low
>> tenor I will increase the overpull by maybe 10% of the calculated 
>> overpull.
>> And in the monocord section of the bass, I'll usually double the overpull
>> (about 30%). I just find that these few tweaks usually get me closer to 
>> the
>> ultimate target in the end.
>>
>> Terry & Paul,
>> Get my pitch raising program, (for SATs), from PTJ article December 1999,
>> and compare your "percentage theorems with my numbers, do the math and 
>> see
>> how close you AREN"T coming to the real world of pitch raising!<G> I've
>> done the work. You should try it and see if it's easier and more 
>> efficient.
>> If it works, why question it?<G>
>> Just my take onall this Percentages crap!
>> Joe
>>
>>
>> Joe Garrett, R.P.T.
>> Captain of the Tool Police
>> Squares R I
>>
>
>
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