[pianotech] Pitch Raising

[Richard W. Bushey]

Terry,

If your confusion is regarding programming the SAT, I was a little confused 
at first as well when I saw the chart as to how to input the info. into the 
SAT (I have SAT III).

The instructions for inputing a tuning manually got me going but I wasn't 
sure what the SAT column meant. It is in fact referring to the Partial Note 
the SAT is tuning the piano note to.

I'm not here to insult anyone's intelligence as there are far brighter minds 
on this forum than I, however, if it helps someone, then great.

I had the PTG Journal DVD and searched Dec. 1999 for the article 
"Electronically Enhanced Tuning" by Joe Garrett to get the list of offsets 
for his pitch raising method.

The procedure is as follows, for those interested (or was confused as I 
was):

1) Turn SAT on.
2) Press Tune button.
3) Pick a page that you want to store Joe's, or other, pitch raise tuning 
on.  I use page one for my temporary use that I can rewrite over daily when 
needed for tunings I don't need to save permantly.  I placed Joe's pitch 
raise tuning on page two.

Now the fun begins. Took me about 1/2 hr. or so to input all the numbers 
manually.

4) Select the Piano Note and Octave you want to program (We'll start at A0), 
just like you would do if you were getting ready to tune the note.

NOTE: Take a minute and get very familiar with these two buttons and what 
they show. If you press the Mem button only, you will see the Piano 
Note/Octave on the left screen and the Page Number on the right screen. When 
going through this process, any time you see the page number in the right 
screen, you are seeing the Piano Note and if you make changes to the 
Note/Octave...you are actually changing which Piano Note/Octave you are 
programing.  If you press just the Tune button, it will show the Partial 
Note/Octave on the left screen (this is the middle column on Joe's list) 
that the SAT is tuning the Piano Note to (your A0 in this case), and on the 
right screen will be the offset number that you will change to match Joe's 
list.  It can get confusing if you're not careful because the partial notes 
and piano notes look the same.....but the indicator of which is which is 
what you see in the right hand screen.

5) Press the Tune button to show the Partial Note/Octave and Offset numbers 
(for A0 you should see E3 and some offset number that you will be changing. 
Go ahead and change the Offset number to match the one on the list (for A0, 
the partial is E3 and the offset is -35.0). For some of the notes, the 
partials will be already be correct from whatever tuning was previously 
stored in that location and you won't have to change it, but be sure to 
check to see that it is in fact correct. If it's not, change the note or 
octave to match the one in the center column on Joe's list (E3 and -35.0).

6) Up to this point you have really done only 3 things: selected a note 
(A0), pressed Tune button to show Partial (E3) and Offset (ex: -10.5), 
changed Partial (E3) and Offset (changed to -35.0) to match the list.  Now, 
SAVE your work by holding the Shift and pressing the Mem button.

7) To check your work, press Mem to view current Piano Note, and page 
number.  Press Tune to view the Partial (SAT note, center column of list) 
and the Offset number.  If correct, proceed to next note. If something is 
incorrect, change it, save it, and recheck it before going on.

8) When all looks good, press the note up button to select next note and 
repeat steps 4-8 for all 88 keys.


9) When finished saving the 88th note, you're finished and can shut your SAT 
off, move to a different page, or go try a pitch raise!

That's about it.  It looks real tedious, but once you get the hang of what 
does what, it will go much quicker.


I'm looking forward to trying this procedure out sometime and see how it 
goes.

Thanks Joe!


Richard W. Bushey
Richard's Piano Service
www.RichardsPianoService.com
Rbushey at RichardsPianoService.com
573-765-9903
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Terry Farrell" <mfarrel2 at tampabay.rr.com>
To: <joegarrett at earthlink.net>; <pianotech at ptg.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 11:10 AM
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Pitch Raising


Hi Joe,

I have your article and studied it a good fair bit a few years back. My 
general conclusion was that it was so complicated that I could pitch raise 
1,000 pianos with my teeth much faster and with much less pain that to 
decipher your approach. I'm not criticizing your method at all - how could 
I, I still don't have a clue what it is. And I think you are very generous 
to offer your thoughts and experience on the subject. But I'm really a 
reasonably smart person and I absolutely had no idea what to do with any of 
the information given in your method.

I have little doubt that you, the author, understand it and get good results 
with it. It simply did not appear user friendly to me at all.

I get good results with the very easy method I employ.  And I really don't 
think that Paul and I were battling. Were you battling me Paul? I hope 
you're not upset that I won!  ;-)

Sincerely,

Terry Farrell

On Oct 31, 2012, at 11:46 AM, Joseph Garrett wrote:

> Terry and Paul battled away saying:
> "
>> Which Sanderson do you use? With the SAT3 you only have the option of 25%
> or 33(?)%.
>
> I use the Sanderson pitch raising method - leapfrogging two mutes, unisons
> as I go, A0 to C88. I do not use an AccuTuner. I do use Verituner for
> iphone.
>
>> In most pianos, for smaller pitch raises I hardly overpull the bass at
> all. If it's a big PR (e.g. 40c-50c or more) even then 25% is too much in
> the bass.
>
> I agree that 25% would be too much. That's why I've settled on about 16%.
>
>> I find that the 33% overpull in the top two octaves or so is oftentimes
> not enough. In order to compensate for these, I usually compensate on the
> "Msr" by going more flat (treble) or less flat (bass) before having it
> calculate the overpull. I re-"Msr" every C#, F, and A (M3's)
>
> I agree that 33% would often be too little overpull, which is why I have
> settled on about 38%.
>
>> I strip mute, A0 - C8, unisons (center, previous note right, current note
> left, next note center, etc.) as I go... someday I'll get brave and try a
> single mute. Maybe.
>
> I effectively do the same thing, only with two mutes.
>
>> I've always been tempted to investigate this, but does it really overpull
> that much at the very top? In other words, if I overpull C8 by 33%, what's
> to pull it flat, besides the other two C8 strings? Or are the other two
> strings enough to drag it back down?
>
> No, of course not. I usually decrease the overpull on the last few notes.
> Let's say I'm doing a 55-cent pitch raise - the 38% overpull should be
> about 20 cents. I would overpull A8 and all notes below about 20 cents. I
> would likely aim for 15 cent overpull on A#8, 10 cent overpull on B8 and
> only 5 cent overpull on C8. I also find that I'll decrease the calculated
> overpull on the last note or two in the upper tenor and bass. In the low
> tenor I will increase the overpull by maybe 10% of the calculated 
> overpull.
> And in the monocord section of the bass, I'll usually double the overpull
> (about 30%). I just find that these few tweaks usually get me closer to 
> the
> ultimate target in the end.
>
> Terry & Paul,
> Get my pitch raising program, (for SATs), from PTJ article December 1999,
> and compare your "percentage theorems with my numbers, do the math and see
> how close you AREN"T coming to the real world of pitch raising!<G> I've
> done the work. You should try it and see if it's easier and more 
> efficient.
> If it works, why question it?<G>
> Just my take onall this Percentages crap!
> Joe
>
>
> Joe Garrett, R.P.T.
> Captain of the Tool Police
> Squares R I
>


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