Pinning and Tone

[Isaac sur Noos]

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MessageDon Mannino, hello,

I noticed that Kaway with their ABS flange tend to take too much play in the
pinning indeed. As I understand it, because when the bushing grows, the part
can't swell because of the material, and when getting dry after, some play
is installed.

I came to a few pianos where the birseye itself have developped ovalisation
with time (1978 models).
So, while I like a lot the grand jack, I am far from convinced with the
other parts, for instance noise and extra friction on RX... grand whippen
lever, kind of feeling the weight and texture of the damper lever in RX
series.

ABS does not give as tone, only thump. And I regret this, because I
appreciate your grands, after having installed in them firm Yamaha front
punchings (discard those cotton style punchings !) and regulate them so the
touch is more light, they tone very well generally (I mean for the
soundboard/strings/hammers parts)

By the way are the broaches you sell to be used without a handle ?.

Best Regards.



Isaac OLEG

Entretien et reparation de pianos.

PianoTech
17 rue de Choisy
94400 VITRY sur SEINE
FRANCE
tel : 033 01 47 18 06 98
fax : 033 01 47 18 06 90
cell: 06 60 42 58 77

  -----Message d'origine-----
  De : caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org]De la part de Don
Mannino
  Envoye : mercredi 22 octobre 2003 19:20
  A : College and University Technicians
  Objet : RE: Pinning and Tone


  Alan,

  I see what you're getting at.  I don't know of any simple answer to
troubleshooting the friction other than removing parts and testing for
friction.  You can do general troubleshooting by swinging the action to find
the loosest and tightest parts, and you can measure down and upweight to get
general friction levels, but removing parts and feeling the softness of the
bushing and checking the friction with a spring gauge are really the
definitive way to know what's up.

  Here are some pertinent thoughts, though I'm not sure I can give you any
real helpful procedures to follow:

  - Too much friction causes a dull tone with poor projection and sometimes
poor sustain.  It affects the action performance as well, of course.
  - Too little friction causes no problems in tone at all in and of itself.
It is only because we are using cloth bushings that low friction results in
poor tone because the hammer is not controlled in its motion well enough.
Please understand me here - if you have a very, very firm bushing that will
pin with low friction and still have excellent side control, the tone should
be fine.  It is the limitation of using a soft bushing material that forces
us to pin with sufficient friction to get the control we need.  It is not
the friction itself which gives good tone - it is the firmness of the
bushing.
  - Teflon bushings gave excellent tone with 0 friction, but they didn't
last long enough.  They were an excellent idea, but the bushing material was
not nearly as durable as good bushing cloth, so it deformed with use and got
noisy.
  - Poor quality cloth forces us to use more friction in the center to get
the controlled motion of the hammer.  I used to work on some grand pianos in
the 80s that came from the factory with very poor, spongy cloth in the
hammer centers.  I would re-size the bushings with water and alcohol, then
repin from the factory #19 pins up to #20 1/2 pins.  This made thinner,
firmer bushings, allowed pinning at about 2 - 4 grams friction, and resulted
in dramatically improved tone.  These pianos were dull and lifeless from the
factory with 6 to 10 grams friction in the soft hammer centers, and a firm
fit with lower friction really made them sing.

  So, when evaluating friction levels in a given piano, I judge by sound and
by feel of the parts, and decide how to work with them.  Now I work mostly
with Kawai parts, and the bushings are very firm with mostly excellent
control of the hammer.  In dry climates they sometimes get too thin in tone
because the hammer center bushings dry out and become too loose, and
repinning them to fit the climate brings the power back up in the tone.  I
find that if I pin for good solid tone in the mid treble, that same friction
level is great for the whole piano.

  Don Mannino

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Alan McCoy [mailto:amccoy@mail.ewu.edu]
    Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 9:30 AM
    To: College and University Technicians
    Subject: RE: Pinning and Tone


    Thanks Don,

    In part what I am trying to get at here is distinguishing between
friction and firmness in the bushing. Can you hear the tonal difference
between a note that has a friction problem vs one that has a firmness
problem?

    My normal procedure in reconditioning an action includes checking action
center friction, duh, and I check side to side play gang-style checking for
winking hammers, but I'm looking around to see if someone has figured out a
way to systematically check for both friction and firmness in an efficient
way (ie without painstakingly removing every flange!!)

    Alan

    PS Bob, Sending them to Marcia is cheating! :-)   Hope things are great
down there in Modesto.
      -----Original Message-----
      From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org]On Behalf Of
Don Mannino
      Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 8:11 AM
      To: caut@ptg.org
      Subject: FW: Pinning and Tone


      Alan,

      The tone of the piano can be the best gauge, as poor pinning has a
pretty distinctive sound to it.  I would describe it as a thin and weak
tone.  Checking the friction level in a thin sounding note, repinning it,
and listening will tell you a lot.

      Experience is the best teacher here.  I don't have a specification to
tell you, except firm enough by feel and a good solid tone by ear.  I
suppose the engineers could give you a spec, though.  X amount of deflection
with Y amount of force applied Z distance from the pin.

      Don Mannino

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