[CAUT] about magnets

[Danny L Tassin]

Hi, 

Chris is pretty much correct, here.  The MBA demonstration booth at the 
Nashville Convention was impressive.   However,  I understood it to be one
of "Touch Weight"  control, and adjusting the Key Touch / Weight (control) 
for each and every (different) pianist for that "one" particular piano this 
system was installed in.   The whole idea was to not settle on "one" touch 
weight for the whole keyboard, but to "vary" the touch weight for that one 
piano anywhere from 46 - 58 grams touch weight ...  i.e: "stiffer" (I use 
that word very loosely) action for harder performers, "lighter" action(s) 
for the softer, more delicate performers.  In my assessment of the product, 
it purely boils down to personal preference and how one wants to feel the 
"touch weight" of the keys under their fingers.  However, I'm sure most 
piano instructors across this nation in universities will not be ready any 
time soon to deal with varying key weight controls because it's hard enough 
to get their students to master the skills they teach on one piano with just 
one (non-adjustable) key weight. 

Go to the web-site these guys have supplied you.  You can make your own 
assessment of the product.  However, it is a very complicated installation. 
The person who said it, is correct  --  you have to apply for "their" 
training class(es) and it ain't cheap, gang. 

I can see a big future for the use of this system, but it's just like the 
invention of VCR's.  Which one of you out there paid  $1500 + for a VCR in 
the late 70's that you can get today (even better) for less than $75 bucks
in Wal Mart or most electronic stores.   I think when this system is 
installed in more pianos that will be put to more use on the stages around 
the world, I believe you'll see it take off like a  "duck to water."  Like I 
said, it was very impressive, right now. But, I can't afford it, and right 
now, most all colleges, schools, Universities cannot and will not budget for 
that right now. It is in it's infancy.  So, keep those brass gram weights in 
your tool boxes just a bit longer. 

(PS:  I always thought brass rod cut to different sizes, weigh for 
measurement, and installed in keys instead of leads was a much better idea.
However, brass is a lot more expensive, and it will tarnish more than lead 
weights (unless you spray coat them to resist oxidation).  Depends on how 
much money one wants to spend, and how much more time you have to deal with 
that material.) 

Thoughts,  anyone ??? 

Dan Tassin, RPT
Piano Tech.
MSU-SOM
E. Lansing, MI 

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Chris Solliday writes: 

> Ed and all,
>  there is the distinct possibility that European Union regulatory agencies will be setting the standard for manufacturing in the world soon as they are the largest market (500 million) for pianos in the world (the Chinese have potential, but the reality of buying lags and they have apparently little interest in self regulation) and the strongest currency in the world. The banning of lead was discussed at Nashville last year at the Stanwood/ExecuKey booth by Ulrich Sauter, the Abel brothers, Bob Marinelli, Ray Negron,  David, myself and others. David Stanwood was already showing an alternative material and manufacturing process
> . Assist springs are not a replacement for lead but an add on. The MBA folks are trying to supply theer design as an alternative to lead as with their design there is no key weighting so the issue is avoided, oops except for the damper levers. The real alternative will pobably be an alternative material not a design. As Ulrich Sauter said the real problem will be getting the first manufacturer to commit to production as no one wants to be first. Then the next problem will be everyone accepting a standard. I think the interesting thing here is, will manufacturers make two different approaches one for Europe and one for everywhere else or will what has happened so far with regulations  and the EU ( JAck Welch and GE, MIcrosoft, etc) happen to pianos. Manufacturers may only want to make one piano for all markets. This is an interesting question. Any speculation?  Any crying of the pundits? An airing of the collective ignorance? Well whatever, the times they are a changin'     again.  
> TO be specific Ed the MBAs (magnetic balanced actions)  do not feel anything (to my fingers and others I have talked to) like a traditional design. They can be adapted to, i.e., one can get used to them, but I don't think anyone has enough information yet to say whether concert artists will accept the change. Assist sprints have been around for a long time and work well to reduce lead, or any kind of weighting in the keys, but they are part of the traditional design palate and feel only slightly different. The adjustment screw for the assist springs invented by Bill Ballard and David Stanwood and refined by Randy Morton and Bob Marinelli has improved this approach a great deal. I wouldn't be too concerned about the wearing out business or the frequency of adjustment as MBAs have their own regulation needs so that's a wash, and by the time the assist springs wear out you will probably need new wippens as happpens anyway. It's just one more spring to regulate. And what happens to MBAs when the other parts (oh yes there is more to the story) besides the magnets wear? My personal opinion is that MBA is a fine advance but it  may die on the evolutionary branch because it is more different or is that differenter? more differenter?? most different...
> This is all just beginning so we have time to get ready, and maybe even develop protocols in advance, but for now it would be a good idea to learn how to regulate both MBA and assist spring actions properly. Right now Renner and Pianotek offer assistance with the assistance springs at convention classes but as far as I am aware MBA is only available to those who go to the weeklong seminars and become licensed installers. Certainly at present there are many more assist spring actions in the world we live in. How many CAUT members have MBA actions in their school inventories? 
> Anyone interested in an open forum on topic here?   Thanks, Chris Solliday 
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Ed Sutton 
>   To: caut@ptg.org 
>   Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 5:41 PM
>   Subject: [CAUT] about magnets 
> 
>  
> 
>   O, Great Minds of Caut! 
> 
>   I have heard tell that Petrof is producing grand pianos with a magnetic assisted action, soon to arrive in our neighborhood. 
> 
>   The magnets are installed in the wippen rail and wippen in repelling orientation so that the magnets lift the wippen similar to a wippen assist spring.  The touchweight can be refined by adjusting the magnets similar to a screw regulated wipen assist spring.  Functionally it seems identical to a wippen assist spring. 
> 
>   When I asked how it differed from a wippen assist spring I was told "Springs wear out, but magnets last forever."  I would be interested in educated comments on that statement.  The magnets will be held continuously in opposition and "compression."  Will they grow weaker over years? decades? or will they last forever? 
> 
>   How does this compare with assist springs?  Do wippen assist springs grow weaker over time?  Faster than magnets? 
> 
>   Jim Ellis, I thank you in advance! 
> 
>   Sincerely,
>   Ed Sutton 
>